Those are OK but I don’t like them nearly so much as Giant’s Causeway, their rear ends are not what I like for a jumper. The pricey one is the one for me…of course! :lol:
This horse has some good line in him http://www.stallionsnow.com/stallion-ad-426133
He is young is why so refined
http://www.ocalastud.com/horses/gottcha-gold-1811.html
okay more very expensive ones lol
http://www.threechimneys.com/Dynaformer/conformation.php
150k
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/stallion-directory/stallion.aspx?stallion_no=4823628 100k
http://www.taylormadestallions.com/horses/unbridleds-song-953.html
100k and grey!
Unbridled’s Song is not my cup of tea, too high in the croup but I like this one: http://www.taylormadestallions.com/horses/forestry-945.html a bargain, too!
[QUOTE=netg;5962243]
The first stallion I ever rode was a 4 year old Arabian his owner had started/had in training. Fabulous ride, and great ground manners.
She showed his son we owned in a halter class for us once, walked out of the ring and said “we could make him win halter, but I wouldn’t risk ruining his amazing disposition if I were you.” So yeah, I like her. (And I would be money she wouldn’t remember me - this was approximately 20 years ago.)
I don’t know what it’s like to work with them for breeding, though! If you wanted me to go out and meet him and take pictures and report back to you, I’d happily do so, too. :)[/QUOTE]
That would be amazing! For my first Anglo-Arabian foal, I’m pretty much dead set breeding my mare to Goldmaker, but if all goes well, I would love to try it again with another stallion. =) Pictures would be amazing! (of him and his Anglo babies, if they still have them)
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;5962254]
Giant’s Causeway is just a lovely horse, I bet he would add very nice blood to a Holsteiner pedigree! He is by far my favorite there, but a little…um…spendy! :lol:
They really ought to freeze some of these for the sporthorse market. Wonder if they’d ever consider it, wouldn’t affect the TB market since they would not be JC eligible due to the LC rule.[/QUOTE]
Believe me, I have asked (not with that farm, exactly, but with other racing stallions I liked). Most of them said no, they are for racing and do not have the facilities/equipment to collect them, but I did have one stallion owner in LA say if I would foot the bill for the equipment/training/collection/shipping, they would gladly get semen to me that way. I would’ve ended up paying more in those extra bills than what they wanted just for livecover, so I decided against that and found a different stallion anyways. =) Though I haven’t bred my mare yet, Kathy (from Avalon Equine) has been a super pleasure to talk with and is excited about getting an Anglo baby from GM and my mare.
I haven’t posted here for a long time because the aura of this BB has changed so much that it just isn’t worth getting into the squabbles over TBs versus WBs.
That having been said since we own three horses by Coconut Grove xx maybe I do have some experience that might reassure the OP about breeding to him. Since you are looking for a sport horse all three of our young horses have great jumping ability . They are very athletic and willing to learn whatever the rider has to offer. Don’t know about their showing ability as one is 4 and the other two are three. Two are ETs from our Jus de Pomme mare and one is from a Merano mare . I have been very happy about working with both Tamera and Wendy . They were and are excellent stallion owners.
About TBs for breeding … since I started breeding TBs for the track and quickly got out of that. I am a certified horse lover and the lower end of racing broke my heart . Never the less I had some distance mares left and my start up in the WB breeding business was based on those mares. If you go to our breeding mares on our web site you will see that we have kept many of the fillies of these mares and their subsequent get sired by our stallion ,Simsalabim have done quite well.
Even though theories abound about breeding anyone who has ever looked through a microscope at a sperm sample and seen how many of them are wiggling around ,each with their own special mix of genes has to face that it is somewhat of a crap shoot.
What I especially like about jumping ( OP’s chosen Discipline ) is that they can either do it or not and no amount of being pretty ,possessing exotic movement or depending on politics is going to make any difference.
[QUOTE=Allyn M;5962534]
I haven’t posted here for a long time because the aura of this BB has changed so much that it just isn’t worth getting into the squabbles over TBs versus WBs.
That having been said since we own three horses by Coconut Grove xx maybe I do have some experience that might reassure the OP about breeding to him. Since you are looking for a sport horse all three of our young horses have great jumping ability . They are very athletic and willing to learn whatever the rider has to offer. Don’t know about their showing ability as one is 4 and the other two are three. Two are ETs from our Jus de Pomme mare and one is from a Merano mare . I have been very happy about working with both Tamera and Wendy . They were and are excellent stallion owners.
About TBs for breeding … since I started breeding TBs for the track and quickly got out of that. I am a certified horse lover and the lower end of racing broke my heart . Never the less I had some distance mares left and my start up in the WB breeding business was based on those mares. If you go to our breeding mares on our web site you will see that we have kept many of the fillies of these mares and their subsequent get sired by our stallion ,Simsalabim have done quite well.
Even though theories abound about breeding anyone who has ever looked through a microscope at a sperm sample and seen how many of them are wiggling around ,each with their own special mix of genes has to face that it is somewhat of a crap shoot.
What I especially like about jumping ( OP’s chosen Discipline ) is that they can either do it or not and no amount of being pretty ,possessing exotic movement or depending on politics is going to make any difference.[/QUOTE]
Very well stated…
[QUOTE=baywithchrome2;5959941]
Here is a pic of Chagall, a Coconut Grove son out of a Cassini I-Lancer I mare.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/baywithchrome/6347180125/
And a recent video link (albeit poor) of the same youngster as a 5 year old.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUti98Mxh_w
The proof is in the pudding ;)[/QUOTE]
THAT is what I want for Christmas! Just tie a big red bow on him and send him my way!!:eek:
Good heavens no. In 2008 we went on holiday to america to Kentucky, we saw among other Cozzene, El Prado and Giacomo. But I think there are also lots of other nice stallions that are cheaper that still have wonderul attributes (for a sporthorse),
WB’s are not a trend. They have been purpose bred for centuries. Currently (the past 60+ years) they have been purpose bred for sport. It is not a trend that every Olympic Sport is dominated by Warmbloods. It is so, because they use a the proven breeding model to create the best horse for the job. TB’s are not purpose bred for sport, just racing. They are, and have been fading out, because they aren’t winning. They aren’t winning because they aren’t being bred for sport. They are bred for racing. Its not to say that they don’t have a place, as we know they do. However, please do not suggest that they are a fad that will pass, and that the TB will come back as a fad in the future. As long as they are not bred for the sport we breed for, they will not succeed at producing animals for the sport we breed for. As it stands now, they do not and we do. Therefore, WB’s will continue to dominate the sports they are bred for. It is not a mistake they are the best sport horses in the world, it is the intent.
Tim
[QUOTE=NOMIOMI1;5962396]
People act like the only Tb’s we have in America are race horse rejects… [/QUOTE]
Really? Which ‘people’? Do you mean people on this BB? There are a number of people here who breed or stand TBs for sport.
[QUOTE=NOMIOMI1;5962396]The racing industry has some of the most beautiful, athletic, well conformed individuals in the WORLD! Its untapped though and they need to get some WB crosses on these boys no doubt! Can you imagine some of those Tonka truck horses? People see the horse racing at 2 and don’t realize that these guys fill out!
Ive seen a TB at a dressage barn that was a girth size up from everything else at the barn and the ferro mare next to him looked refined lol [/QUOTE]
You seem to believe that the main criteria for quality in a sport horse is size. More specifically, bigness.
Ah. Bigness again. If it’s big it must be good. Surely.
Whether I buy them or breed them, my own awesome TBs haven’t cost near that amount. Not to breed, not to buy, not at the sales. Of course, you’d probably find them un-awesome, because they’re not big. But they are superior athletes, which is all that matters to me.
I tend to agree with RyTimMick on this thread. I breed for eventing, so I’m usually looking for a very high percentage of TB in my horses. If I were breeding for SJ, I’d be more inclined to up the WB and wouldn’t breed to a TB stallion in most cases as it would not be the surest method of getting the GP jump.
The basic problem is the original question.
If you have to ask , there’s the problem. No real soft knowledge regarding sporthorse production of TB stallions in this country because there basically is no TB sporthorse production in this country.
TB’s were bred for sport here successfully in the past. Warmbloods were bred successfully for the sport in Europe. The simple difference is… we quit and they didn’t.
We don’t have generations of sporthorses coming from Tb mare families and we don’t have generations of Tb sporthorses coming from human families.
Someone above said breeding is a crap shoot. This is true but the odds of trying to breed top quality sporthorses from TB’s is equal to winning the lottery. They are gone and their only real sporthorse quantitive value is in the breeding shed for the generational production of the warmblood.
[QUOTE=RyTimMick;5963559]
WB’s are not a trend. They have been purpose bred for centuries. Currently (the past 60+ years) they have been purpose bred for sport. It is not a trend that every Olympic Sport is dominated by Warmbloods. It is so, because they use a the proven breeding model to create the best horse for the job. TB’s are not purpose bred for sport, just racing. They are, and have been fading out, because they aren’t winning. They aren’t winning because they aren’t being bred for sport. They are bred for racing. Its not to say that they don’t have a place, as we know they do. However, please do not suggest that they are a fad that will pass, and that the TB will come back as a fad in the future. As long as they are not bred for the sport we breed for, they will not succeed at producing animals for the sport we breed for. As it stands now, they do not and we do. Therefore, WB’s will continue to dominate the sports they are bred for. It is not a mistake they are the best sport horses in the world, it is the intent.
Tim[/QUOTE]
SIGH
I NEVER said the WB was not the top of the sport or vastly more producing of those kinds.
Im simply listing some excellent TB bloodlines/horses, because thats what this thread is about… Start your own if it bothers you :yes:
Why would any of my postings mean that I don’t agree with what you said?
Its a big world… There is a place for both horses
I would breed my own mare WB, but I’ll start my own thread to talk about that…
I wish there was a TB enthusiast on this board who is also knowledgeable regarding how they can contribute positively in breeding for show jumping, and that person would participate in these threads and share that knowledge intelligently with the rest of us. Not only would that likely add to these discussions in a positive way, but that person might actually be able to get through to and educate the TB fanatics here who add nothing more than, “TBs are the best and most athletic jumping breed ever!!1!!! And WBs are big dumb fads!!1!!1!!! The TB will be making a comeback any day now - all of you WB people will see!11!!!11!”
The offense that is taken by many of the TB fans on here is not only uncalled for and misguided, but it really makes it hard to follow all the well thought out, intelligent discussion that goes on.
[QUOTE=JER;5963659]
Really? Which ‘people’? Do you mean people on this BB? There are a number of people here who breed or stand TBs for sport.
You seem to believe that the main criteria for quality in a sport horse is size. More specifically, bigness.
Ah. Bigness again. If it’s big it must be good. Surely.
Whether I buy them or breed them, my own awesome TBs haven’t cost near that amount. Not to breed, not to buy, not at the sales. Of course, you’d probably find them un-awesome, because they’re not big. But they are superior athletes, which is all that matters to me.
I tend to agree with RyTimMick on this thread. I breed for eventing, so I’m usually looking for a very high percentage of TB in my horses. If I were breeding for SJ, I’d be more inclined to up the WB and wouldn’t breed to a TB stallion in most cases as it would not be the surest method of getting the GP jump.[/QUOTE]
Big as in bone… I could care less about height.
How could anyone have a problem with me posting nice TB’s on a thread about tbs?
There are people on this thread (if you’d read back) that said the TB is treated like dirt and a dime a dozen and what not…
I simply posted the ones that take up quite a few dimes…
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;5962495]
Unbridled’s Song is not my cup of tea, too high in the croup but I like this one: http://www.taylormadestallions.com/horses/forestry-945.html a bargain, too![/QUOTE]
Ditto 
I would love to see some of the high end race horse put to sport mares, but alas thats not their interest lol
They need a Kentucky Derby for the sport horse world lol:lol:
[QUOTE=ynl063w;5963825]
I wish there was a TB enthusiast on this board who is also knowledgeable regarding how they can contribute positively in breeding for show jumping, and that person would participate in these threads and share that knowledge intelligently with the rest of us. [/QUOTE]
This is how a TB can contribute ‘positively’ for showjumping.
TB stallion + IDSH mare
Please understand that this is a very well-tested and well-documented way of breeding. The blood goes on top; the mare is an RID/TB cross. This method of breeding produced many, many GP jumpers over the years. It’s less common now in Ireland with the influx of WBs like Cavalier Royale but for decades, this was how it was done.
Here’s an excellent example of the TB/IDSH breeding: Kilbaha.
[QUOTE=ynl063w;5963825]
I wish there was a TB enthusiast on this board who is also knowledgeable regarding how they can contribute positively in breeding for show jumping, and that person would participate in these threads and share that knowledge intelligently with the rest of us. Not only would that likely add to these discussions in a positive way, but that person might actually be able to get through to and educate the TB fanatics here who add nothing more than, “TBs are the best and most athletic jumping breed ever!!1!!! And WBs are big dumb fads!!1!!1!!! The TB will be making a comeback any day now - all of you WB people will see!11!!!11!”
The offense that is taken by many of the TB fans on here is not only uncalled for and misguided, but it really makes it hard to follow all the well thought out, intelligent discussion that goes on.[/QUOTE]
In bold – there are, including many who have contributed to this thread.
Your post, however, does not add anything of an intelligent nature.
JER, might need to give you an invite to our Irish Breeder group! The cross you are talking about is coming up lacking in athletisicism as well. Unless of course the ID part is about 3rd generation. People bemoan the TB here as well. The mare base is sadly lacking in quality. I think we counted a total of 5 5* mares in the country.
I think Elles brought up Watermill Swatch. He’s not a big hit here. Maybe that will change over time. I thought him a lovely stallion to refine the mare base here and give them the best of TB attributes. Reports are saying that hasn’t happened. But with all things TB, people start moaning when they’re gone. Such as Stormhill Miller. So the jury is out on him but I know few are excited by his initial crops.
What the smart breeders will do is add blood and hope for a filly and then breed from her. They don’t want the blood to see what they themselves can do, they want the blood to contribute quickness, reflexes, ect. This is a risky endeavour though as the colts will yield little money in the attempt to improve your mare herd. Remember we only have 5 5* mares here. The mare base is very lacking in qualities to produce 1.60 jumpers.
For all the TB’s in this country there are very few standing for sporthorse breeding that you would say, yup this will work. There is no presentation for TB’s under saddle in the stallion testing. It’s all about linear scores and sometimes it’s only what you’ve done on the track. It’s not good enough. There is no reason these TB stallions can’t get back riding and be presented properly. Of course this is a country in which a horse like Cavalier Royale was not approved and yet a ID only has to jump 1m ok for approval. Any wonder we are lagging behind in SJ?
We can talk about all the gorgeous 100k stallions and the contributions they could make all we want, but chances are they will never be used nor do we know what kind of contribution, if any, they could actually make. Sure I get caught up too. Would love to see a Sea The Stars Warmblood baby! But unless he’s a dire failure as a flat horse stallion and then a failed NH stallion that isn’t gonna happen.
And we also have to keep in mind, the TB’s responsible for bringing warmblood breeding to the fore? If any one of those horses such as Ladykiller had been a dynamo for racehorse breeding, they wouldn’t have been standing abroad for sporthorse purposes.
OK and to clarify before I get raked over the coals, I used the Irish book as an example because at the moment it’s a studbook in turmoil about breeding direction. The TB is getting mentioned throughout every conversation. Where and when to add blood? Is it needed, ect. For eventing definitely, for SJ it just depends if it’s in terms of generations. I’m listening and contributing to conversations with highly regarded breeders of good horses in my adopted country. I’m also seeing what’s out there at jumping shows ect.
I don’t understand why people get so silly when you actually see what’s happening. Of course an odd TB can compete at the top levels in jumping but they weren’t bred to do that. They are versatile enough to do that. But last I checked no top SJ breeders in the world have a dedicated breeding program to breed top level jumpers. They do however, recognise the need for some of the attributes of the TB in a breeding program. But finding those amongst the racebred TB’s out there is not easy. Look at it this way, how many super racehorses end up super at stud? Very few and a heck of a lot shorter time period to figure that out.
Work away and pull everything apart I said. FWIW, I’m galoping in the morning for a trainer that also does field hunter liveries. Not going over a single fence mind you but after galloping a couple of TB’s and then having to climb aboard a big cold no mouth hunter, you can definitely see why blood is needed! But is that blood needed to produce that jumper now or in generations to come?
Terri
How about all the TB’s in Hickstead’s background: http://www.paardenfokken.nl/pedigree.php?horseid=1039&maxniveau=6
A lot of his ancestors were not bred for jumping either!! A lot of them never got to jump during their lifetimes. For example this one: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.php?query_type=horse&search_bar=horse&horse=GAMBO&g=5&t= There the following is said about the horse: A GrPS Winner in carriage-horse classes in the Netherlands.
This one to me looks like a rather nice horse but I do not know his breeding: http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-484444
