Best and Worst clinics you've been to

[NancyM]

Best clinics… between John Turner, Claudia Cojocar, Micheal Patrick, and Detrich Von Hopfgarten. First three are/where h/j, last one was dressage (when I was a kid, he was available for non-dressage specialists). All are/were entertaining, fun, and on point for learning and advancing skills. Money well spent. George Morris was expensive, and of course on point, but the verbal abuse of one rider in our group was distracting (it was a long time go, when he was worse about that than he is now). I also enjoyed Scot King, and found his input to be useful.

Worst… I can’t really say. I find a rider/trainer can learn SOMETHING from everyone. I’ve had clinics I did not enjoy, or that were a waste of time and/or money, or didn’t go well, but there is usually SOMETHING that you can learn, if you try. I had one clinician who was working with figuring the exact fall of the feet at the canter, so that at some time in the future, a flying change could be asked for. I selected each diagonal across the ring, and did the flying change in both directions, as had already been acquired with this horse previous to the clinic without issue. Kind of deflated that clinician that day. But it was an outing for a green horse, and a different arena to ride in. Bernie Trauig was a nightmare for me, but even with that, I learned something valuable from him that remains with me 25 years later.

[Magicboy]

I also think you can take something away from every clinic whether you ride or audit. Sometimes you learn what to avoid.

[Draftmare]

@gottagrey

Hands down best clinic = Ralph Hill
Worst - a George Morris clinic where in addition to his usual berating of some of the rider’s riding, he took it to a new level by making sexist remarks about some of the auditors and singled out one rider to berate her appearance (she was model thin and pretty) and basically called her a dumb blonde the entire time. Since he spent the entire session making digs and sexist remarks aimed at this one rider and an auditor (they did not come together) no one benefited from that particular session at all - other than having someone set up some gridwork for you

Sadly this seems pretty normal for him. I am not sure why people keep going back, or think that he is some saint of riding. There was a video floating around on FB a few years back that showed him telling a thin and pretty rider to set down the fork. I would have walked over to him, slapped him, left the arena, and canceled my check.

[gottagrey]

@Draftmare

Sadly this seems pretty normal for him. I am not sure why people keep going back, or think that he is some saint of riding. There was a video floating around on FB a few years back that showed him telling a thin and pretty rider to set down the fork. I would have walked over to him, slapped him, left the arena, and canceled my check.

He would come to my area for an annual clinic so would go and audit - most of the it was his normal picking on, sometimes brutalizing a rider - but it was in relation to their riding - not their physical attributes or what he interpreted as a lack of their intellect like. I followed that with the Ralph Hill Clinic and oh my what a absolute refreshing change. My trainer who rode my horse in it said she learned more from Ralph Hill in 5 minutes

[Bluey]

Abuse of any kind should never be accepted, no matter where found or for what purpose someone is coming down harder than necessary on someone.

If more people would walk out when that happens, the clinicians that may fall into those bad habits would have to learn to curb their enthusiasm for lording it over others just because they can.

Life is too short for that.

[bettyk]

THE Best: Betsy Steiner!! She taught me more in three days than I learned in 20 years from other instructors. I gave up even taking lessons from anyone else because the difference in teaching methods is so markedly superior. She has a remarkable eye and unending patience. Her empathy for the horse is unmatched, and she will hang in with you until you get it. She cares that you (and your horse) are the best you can be!

[quietann]

@McVillesMom

Linda Zang is fabulous, both to audit and to ride for. I learned almost as much watching as I did riding. She is extremely down-to-earth and pays just as much attention to the training level OTTB as she does to the FEI warmblood.

I agree 100%. I have two bests and two worsts, and she is one of the bests! My then-trainer tacked Training-Level me and my little Morgan mare onto the end of the day, because LZ had time. My mare then proceeded to lose. her. brains. The worst of it was that every time we came up to the door from the indoor to the barn, she exploded. She was no way no how going past it. (Yes, she’d seen it thousands of times by then…) LZ coached me through it … when I wasn’t swearing, I was laughing, because it really was funny, and eventually the mare got her brains back into her head, and LZ absolutely loved her. I got my very first counter canter and very first trot lengthening ever! But the most important thing I learned was how to laugh when things got ridiculous, as they sometimes tend to with the mare.

Other best is Libby Lyman, a more-or-less NH type trainer with an English riding background, up in Maine. She just has the right energy and it rubs off on the riders and the horses. She is all about doing less with more, and is very clear. Very fun clinic, she gave me a lot to work on and think about, reminded me that I can bring out the good sensitivity in my mare, and asked if we’d be back next year. (It helps that there is a wonderful B&B down the road that gets a lot of its business from clinic riders.) She was also wonderful on the last day when my mare overheated and had a mild colic.

Worst #1 is Bill Richey… I know some people love his despooking clinics, with the fire and the sirens and all that, but “flooding” is a bad choice for a sensitive mare and a timid rider. Too many horses, not a terribly helpful way of instructing, etc. He asked to work with my mare, and she tried to kill him … Seriously. She’s a very good mare, but when she is badly treated and completely overwhelmed she will rear and strike, and I just don’t like anyone who brings that out in her. (She has done it with me … once. In 9 1/2 years.) I left that one early. A clinic like that might have worked for us in a small group format, and a different tone.

Worst #2 was a disciple of Mary Wanless. I watched her work with some riders when we arrived, and it just seemed kind of pointless. During the night, my father died, not unexpectedly. Everyone was very nice and I did get one lesson with the clinician and don’t remember much about it. So that one may have been circumstances as much as anything; hence I am not naming her.

[WB_Mom]

Maybe not the ‘best’, but absolutely the most memorable was Jimmy Williams when I was very young. No nonsense, full of information and what a charmer!

[BravAddict]

@LilyandBaron

Worst - Pamela Goodrich. I read good reviews on here, heard she was classical, but she literally screamed incessantly to “Pull harder!” And when not screaming, she was texting her real clients and not paying attention to the clinic riders. I can handle screaming or a tough attitude, but not demands for aggressive riding - her devoted students all have tendinitis, so nope! But even absent that, it was incredibly rude to be on her phone when she was supposed to be teaching. I was appalled.

After reading all of this, what I wouldn’t give to hear just ONE story about an attendee swatting the phone out of such a clinician’s hands with his or her whip.

[demidq]

I booked a clinic with Walter Zettl twice, and both times there was a last minute cancellation. The second time, I was already at Eddo Hoekstra’s barn, and he offered to give the clinic at a reduced rate so I stayed. Most of the riders were looking for Parelli type teaching, there were only 2 of us who actually wanted to work on dressage. Eddo was really great, and I learned a huge amount in 2 days. He was very patient and complimentary about my very green mare and my very rusty self, I felt very empowered.
Worst was a Ray Hunt clinic near the end of his life. He had all the riders (15? 20? the ring was very full) on very different horses at very different skill levels work in the ring at the same time. He had some going clockwise and some going counterclockwise, and they were supposed to weave in and out. Inside one horse, outside the next. It was chaos, especially as there were unequal numbers going each direction. No comments, no instructions, nothing, and this went on for about 30 minutes. There wasn’t any discussion or explanation afterwards either, very frustrating for riders and auditors.

[Bluey]

@demidq

I booked a clinic with Walter Zettl twice, and both times there was a last minute cancellation. The second time, I was already at Eddo Hoekstra’s barn, and he offered to give the clinic at a reduced rate so I stayed. Most of the riders were looking for Parelli type teaching, there were only 2 of us who actually wanted to work on dressage. Eddo was really great, and I learned a huge amount in 2 days. He was very patient and complimentary about my very green mare and my very rusty self, I felt very empowered.
Worst was a Ray Hunt clinic near the end of his life. He had all the riders (15? 20? the ring was very full) on very different horses at very different skill levels work in the ring at the same time. He had some going clockwise and some going counterclockwise, and they were supposed to weave in and out. Inside one horse, outside the next. It was chaos, especially as there were unequal numbers going each direction. No comments, no instructions, nothing, and this went on for about 30 minutes. There wasn’t any discussion or explanation afterwards either, very frustrating for riders and auditors.

Ray Hunt was no better when he started, read my post #9.

They say he was cryptic, you had to figure what he was saying.
I thought he was clueless, he didn’t know much, was winging it all along.
He probably was good at riding himself, but didn’t know the finer details of horsemanship, which is what you need to be an effective teacher.
Not many of his time knew those.

Then, others may have had different experiences.

So nice that you had a great clinic with a green horse, that is something to be very proud of.
It helps you see where you are and they help you where to go next.

[demidq]

Thank you Bluey. This has reminded me that I really should do more clinics (not many in my area). I will have to contact Eddo next spring!

[Nojacketrequired]

Best ridden was Stephen Clarke. Went in with a fire-breathing TB who thought the audience was going to eat him and the transformation was marvelous throughout the lesson.
Worst ridden was a kur clinician whose name I forget…Spent all sorts of time with the barn owner and short-changed everyone else.
Best audited was Ralf Isselhorst…no nonsense. Took a set of draw reins off of one horse and tossed them in a garbage can. Could really get good work out of the teams that wanted to listen.
Worst audited was Lisa Wilcox…MORE CONTACT was the phrase of the day until she had to teach people how to “box” their horses because the horses began to balk and not go forward due to how much pressure they had in their mouths.

NJR

[Gestalt]

Ray Hunt may not have been a good teacher for the average rider, but for horsemen with the right ability he was perfection. There are several local trainers that learned from Ray and Tom Dorrance. They have that intuitive ability to read a horse before the rest of us even see what’s happening. Like a few other top riders and trainers that have been mentioned in this thread, Ray had horse sense but, maybe not a lot of people skills. There’s a guy in the Portland area that learned from Ray, and many of us sent our horses to him for training. He can do anything with a horse, he doesn’t claim to be a people trainer.

I learned from each clinician I’ve ridden with but, I wouldn’t seek any of them out anymore. I’d like to audit someone like Pierre Cousyn. His style sounds like how I’d like to ride.

Actually I’ll take that back, I looked at a couple videos and I’ll pass. What about this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYIU72KaLUw anyone clinic or audit him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnPfTgrrbRc

[vxf111]

Not every great horseman is a great rider. Not every great rider is a great teacher. Not event great teacher is a great clinician.

Teaching a whole bunch of strangers in a short period of time, who were grouped for you, in a setting unfamiliar to you is HARD. It is a totally different skillset than running your own barn, with clients and horses you know well, working on things over a period of time.

I am a pretty experienced teacher (academic, not riding) but if you told me I had to do a 4 hour session for 12 strangers on any one of the topics I know well and teach-- I would have to completely revamp everything.

I would not necessarily assume that someone who is a good teacher is always a great clinician.

[Glyphica]

I’ll throw out another vote for Arthur Kottas being an awful clinician. The man can obviously ride, but he was just awful at the clinic I audited. Really didn’t tell anyone how to do anything, just yelled platitudes. One rider who came really had no business being there, which royally pissed off AK who then took it out on the rest of the riders.

I LOVE Jeremy Steinberg from an auditor’s perspective, but don’t know if he’s worth the cash to ride with. He is a great lecturer, but that means that some riders get used more as examples then actually get taught (at least in my opinion).

I’d ride with Henk Van Bergen every day if I could. Freaking miracle worker. Every horse/rider improved over the three days. And he never got cross. I can’t say enough good things about him.

[Glyphica]

Also like to add that the one “centered riding” gal I’ve audited was terrible. I don’t want to name names as she is semi-local to me. She just didn’t have a clue. No one did anything, and she didn’t even know what a dropped noseband was! I had to step in when she tried to put a kid’s drop noseband up over the bit like a standard cavesson noseband.

[happilyretired]

I audited a Lilo Forre (sp??)clinic years ago and she did a great job with a range of horses and riders. Challenging for experienced riders without being rude and also good with less experienced riders where she focused on seat basics.

Worst was Arthur Kotas. There were some less experienced riders and horses at the clinic I audited and he was hopeless with them. It was difficult to watch and a bad experience for the riders. Also wasn’t impressed with Walter Zettl although I know many liked him. My impression was he provided platitudes to experienced riders and wasn’t much help for less experienced riders either.

[2DogsFarm]

Reading through this thread reminded me of an Epic Worst:
I audited a clinic with a German clinician who taught the entire session in German! :mad:
The Trainer who imported this maroon had to translate to non-German-speaking riders.
Went much like this:

GermanAsshat to rider in private session:

“Eine Kleine Nachtmusik von Shnitzelgrubens das Pferd!” (of course I am being snarky here, who knows what he really said…in German…)

Translating Trainer:

“More right rein”

So, it was apparent a LOT was being said that never got communicated to the riders.
Who paid upwards of $200 - back n the late 90s - for this clinic.
The one rider who actually got a lesson was a German-speaker.
Why everyone else did not dismount & demand their money back is/was beyond me.

[Willy_Von_Whompers]

Worst I’ve ridden in.l…Sigfreid (Bimbo) Peliecke…sucked. Made suggestive remarks in German (which I understood, albeit after mulling them over in my head for 10 minutes, not believing my translations were correct) SUCKED up totally to the rich girl who had just bought her horse out of his barn, mainly ignoring the rest of us…total waste of time. Two grunts and a Jahwohl fraulein were the best I got. Oh and two “tempo tempos”…That will be $300 please.

Worst I’ve audited… Linda Parelli beyond bad and into dangerously stupid territory. She’s not fit to have stuffed horses in her clinics, let alone real ones.

BEST I’ve ridden in. John Lasseter. Knowledgeable, very dry sense of humour but huge depth of wisdom to plumb. He doesn’t “always” give it to the great unwashed, but if you try and he sees you are trying, then he pays you the compliment of the full instruction. (I know, you want that anyway in a clinician, but hey…) Even at 50% it’s better than most.

Best I’ve audited: Recently Diedrik Von Silfout. Excellent, very black and white with his system. Kind and humble as a person, and judged every horse to a nicety. Never crossed the line by pushing too much.

Indiferent: Kottas. I’ve watched him a lot. (too cheap to pay his $ and I think you get more out of watching). Seems to depend on his mood to be honest. Good lessons, but lacking the “whys” and I always get the impression he is “phoning it in”…can’t quite be arsed to get involved. More of a watcher, throwing in advice he sadly expects won’t be taken. LOL Wish I could shake the knowledge out of his head tho onto the floor and pick thru it.

Stephen Clarke…Indifferent. Too busy sucking up and dropping names. Was all over anyone he thought was a GP rider or had $ and not so bothered about the others. OK to watch…I’d NEVER pay a cent for him though. Too snobby and elitist for my taste. Knows some good exercises but you get the feeling he hasn’t used them personally for a hundred years. Would rather natter on about “carl”… I would need a sick bag for auditing next time.