best/cheapest preemptive ulcer treatment

[SuckerForHorses]

[QUOTE=SuckerForHorses;6180627]
I am on live chat with a representative right now…she said 2 weeks for the stock to be available. I am trying to get them to honor the $162.05 for the remaining 80 but to send me the Abprazole Plus (the one that contains the probiotics) so that I don’t have to wait for the regular. We’ll see if they will. She said they would contact me within 24 hours to let me know.[/QUOTE]

Called Abler because my card had a pending charge on it for $162.05 even though I hadn’t heard back whether or not they would honor the regular price for the Abrazole Plus. The woman I spoke with said they did approve the lower price for the Abprazole Plus (saved me about $15.00) and the order will be shipped tomorrow (80 packets of the Abprazole Plus in place of the regular without probiotic). The only thing that was annoying was the fact that they charged my card prior to even letting me know they were going to honor the lower price, adn then gettign my approval to finish the order.

So…now I wait for my order to come!

[NeverCanWait]

I may have missed it - But can anyone speak of the palatability of the Abprazole?? I have a super picky eater and am in the beginning stages of treating ulcers.

[SuckerForHorses]

[QUOTE=NeverCanWait;6185512]
I may have missed it - But can anyone speak of the palatability of the Abprazole?? I have a super picky eater and am in the beginning stages of treating ulcers.[/QUOTE]

My mare is BY FAR, the pickiest horse I have EVER owned. One night, I forgot to add her aloe juice to her meal (she had been getting it for a few weeks so nothing new to her…) so I went back in her stall, dumped aloe in, mare wouldn’t even try her grain anymore! It’s like she thought I was trying to trick her. Next day, gave her same dish, same grain, same aloe, she ate it fine. Very suspicious horsey!

That beign said…I sprinkle the granules on the top of her alfalfa cube/TC Senior mash, and she eats them without even noticing they are there.

The instructions say to sprinkle on grain dry (so the enteric coating doesn’t get wet and break down beore the horse eats it). If the horse will not eat them dry, you can use corn syrup or molasses to syringe them into the horse, and as a final resort you can topdress them on a mash, but only if hte horse will consume them within 15 minutes (this is a direct instruction from the packet insert when I got my Abprazole in the mail). I just mix everything else up, then sprinkle the packet contents on the very top, so she is more likely to eat those first; I do NOT stir them in.

[deltawave]

I just mix it with my horses’ regular meal of pellets. They eat it all, no problems. I find if you leave stuff in their feed tubs it eventually disappears, even if they seem to reject it at first. A long night with nothing to do makes things more palatable.

[visorvet]

Palatability

Not great - the suckers are quite bitter. Many horses will eat them in feed when given at the preventive dose (1 packet), but of the horses I’ve given the treatment dose to 0/4 would eat it in grain. And these are horses that get large meals so the pop rocks are diluted significantly. So for the horses that needed it most I have had to syringe it in. Take home point - though many report good experiences don’t count on your horse eating it unless you are using the low dose. My current mare refuses even that…

[deltawave]

the suckers are quite bitter

Can’t assume that what tastes “bad” to us tastes bad to a horse.

[visorvet]

Yes, obviously. My comments on palatability are based on the fact that I have yet to see any horse voluntarily consume a meal containing a full/treatment dose of the granules. These were not picky eaters, either. Not saying that NO horse will eat it, just pointing out that mine do not for the benefit of the person that inquired about palatability. For the preventive dose, I have had 2 horses that will eat it in feed and 2 that would not.

[wishnwell]

[QUOTE=Charlie Piccione;6175821]
Just feed Chia Seed. Cheaper :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]

Just did a quick search for it and sounds interesting…do you know if it would test?

[wateryglen]

ulcer prevention?

Use the alfalfa cubes for treats…maybe even pre ride.
And my 2 biggest suggestions? OIL! Added over their grain! Coats/soothes the tummy. AND liquid antacid poured over their grain.

I buy generic mint flavored white antacids from Walmart. My mare LOVES it. Pour it on grain and she slurps it up. She’ll also take it squirted into her mouth (holds her head up waiting for me to put it in and squirt!) pre ride too. Seems to help her "tude a lot!! I dont’ do this all the time; just during stressful times. I have to be most pro-active during acorn season as they eat them and get gastritis on & off for a few weeks every fall.

For meds; I’ve found the cheapest is CIMETIDINE (800mg tablets 8-10 tabs twice daily for ulcers) Bottle of 100 tabs cost $15 - works for me!

I’m a big believer that prevention is also about keeping fiber in their guts so keeping hay in front of them is my thing.

[deltawave]

Cimetidine can interact with a LOT of other medications, so if the horse is on a bunch of things you might be better off with ranitidine or famotidine. We don’t use cimetidine in humans any more for this reason–it has that peculiar attribute of REALLY messing with the liver’s cytochrome system to break down drugs and other things. If the horse isn’t taking anything else, probably no biggie.

[cyberbay]

So confused… If someone could help me with my muddledness, that would be great. I have a horse needing ramitidine, but would like to know exactly what it does compared to all the other names out there. I would like to confirm my data:

GastroGuard: helps to PREVENT ulcers
UlcerGard: helps to HEAL ulcers
Are these 2 drugs, at core, an antacid, an actual medication, a buffer, or?

Cimetidine: an antacid? The thought being that excess acid is what causes ulcers?
Ramitidine: same as Cimetidine
These 2 drugs given in hopes of doing same but more cheaply than G’Guard or U’Gard?
Omeprazole: the generic of all of the above?

Alfalfa hay: a buffer, so essentially acting as an antacid
Slippery elm: An antacid

(Thank you, OP, for this very temporary diversion.)

[deltawave]

GastroGuard: helps to PREVENT ulcers
UlcerGard: helps to HEAL ulcers
Are these 2 drugs, at core, an antacid, an actual medication, a buffer, or?

Cimetidine: an antacid? The thought being that excess acid is what causes ulcers?
Ramitidine: same as Cimetidine
These 2 drugs given in hopes of doing same but more cheaply than G’Guard or U’Gard?
Omeprazole: the generic of all of the above?

Alfalfa hay: a buffer, so essentially acting as an antacid
Slippery elm: An antacid

I will have a crack here.

1. Gastrogard (GG) and Ulcergard (UG) are the SAME MEDICATION (omeprazole). The higher, “prescription strength” (GG) is FDA approved to TREAT ulcers, while the lower strength (UG) is approved to PREVENT ulcers. That is what they are FDA APPROVED for, for “on label” use. It does not mean they can’t be used otherwise. Many people give 1/4 doses of GG, for instance, as preventive, or a full tube of Ulcergard for treatment. The ONLY difference between these two products is the labeling.

2. Neither of the above is a direct antacid or a buffer. Omeprazole is a “proton pump inhibitor” which works on the acid-producing cells in the stomach to get them to stop cranking out acid. Examples of direct antacids are TUMS or Rolaids or Neigh-Lox: usually a calcium or other mineral salt that neutralizes acid directly.

3. Yes, omeprazole is the generic of GastroGard, UlcerGard, and human Prilosec. There are many threads on using various forms of generic omeprazole . . . won’t get into that here.

4. Cimetidine, ranitidine and famotidine (or Tagamet, Zantac, Pepcid) are H2 blockers. They work on a different part of the acid secretion system to reduce the output of stomach acid. So they are not buffers, either. They reduce acid production like omeprazole, but are about 2/3 as strong. It is a myth that H2 blockers don’t heal ulcers. NOTHING heals ulcers except the body itslef . . . any drugs that reduce acid PROMOTE healing, and that includes H2 blockers.

5. Alfalfa appears to buffer acid a little by the presence of “lignins” or plant polysaccharides. It is a myth that the calcium in alfalfa is what does the buffering.

6. Slippery elm has a mucilage component that coats ulcerated surfaces, possibly thereby protecting them and allowing healing. No direct effect on acid whatsoever. Similar effect to another drug called carafate/sucralfate.

Hope that helps! I’m never one to give a short answer when a long one will do . . . :uhoh:

[cyberbay]

Thank you so much, D’wave, and I was secretly hoping you would be the ‘answerer’ on my post.

[Flagstaff_Foxhunter]

ALL of these threads on ulcers/medications have been so helpful! Just wanted to give a shout out to you generous sharers of wisdom and/or collective experiences.

The latest ulcer symptom I read about was grass snatching. Makes sense. The mare that does this is the one I suspect has ulcers. I decided a while back that if she was happier with the occasional snack under saddle, we’d let that be an acceptable behavior if I gave permission. So equipped with a nice long set of reins, I tap her neck when we are standing to let her know she can nibble. Understanding that having food in her gut helps with the painful acid sloshing makes me regret the times she wasn’t allowed to graze.

I think we’re going to give the omeprazole pop rocks a go. Just waffling over the idea of trying OTC Ranitidine first.

[SuckerForHorses]

[QUOTE=deltawave;6190373]

1. Gastrogard (GG) and Ulcergard (UG) are the SAME MEDICATION (omeprazole). The higher, “prescription strength” (GG) is FDA approved to TREAT ulcers, while the lower strength (UG) is approved to PREVENT ulcers. That is what they are FDA APPROVED for, for “on label” use. It does not mean they can’t be used otherwise. Many people give 1/4 doses of GG, for instance, as preventive, or a full tube of Ulcergard for treatment. The ONLY difference between these two products is the labeling.[/QUOTE]

GastroGard and UlcerGard are the same strength medication, one is not higher strength than the other. Its the same concentration just in a different tube. While you need a prescription to obtain GastroGard, if you use UlcerGard its the same strength at the same rate of administration.

You can TREAT ulcers with 1 tube of UlcerGard per day because its the same strength as 1 tube of GastroGard. The difference between the two as you said, is that the dosing labels on the tubes says to use GastroGard at a rate of 1 tube per day to treat, and UlcerGard at a rate of 1/4 or 1/2 tube per day to prevent.

They can be used interchangably because there is NO DIFFERENCE in product concentration strength, only the way the tube tells you to use it.

[cyberbay]

Flagstaff Foxhunter: Can you elaborate on grass snatching? What exactly is that behavior? txs.

[deltawave]

GastroGard and UlcerGard are the same strength medication, one is not higher strength than the other. Its the same concentration just in a different tube.

Yes, thank you. You will note I mentioned that later in my post. (that the only difference is the labeling) I ought to have said “dose” and not “strength” for clarity but I am perfectly aware of the way the drug is dosed, used, and labeled.

You can, however, also treat ulcers with doses other than the recommended full dose, with drugs other than omeprazole, and with tincture of time. They DO HEAL. Always. Strong therapy simply speeds things and when the FDA labels a drug for therapeutic purposes it is based on a certain number of subjects responding in a certain time frame to a certain dose. It is just not true that failing to give full dose omeprazole “on label” is ineffective. Lower doses can work just fine. It is not an all or nothing phenomenon.

[wateryglen]

Thanks Deltawave!

I was thinking the H2 blockers were the way to go particularly for prevention because of their markedly reduced cost.
To me; first I use an antacid + H2 blocker when I see signs of a possible bellyache. Then go to the PPI’s (bigger gun drugs imho!) for more aggressive therapy.

Would I be accurate in saying that besides dietary adjustments you could consider: :

1. Antacids first
2. H2 blockers next
3. Proton Pump Inhibitors last
   

[deltawave]

One can certainly approach things that way in my non-veterinary opinion. One nice thing about H2 blockers is that they don’t seem to promote rebound acid hypersecretion like the PPIs can. A downside is multiple doses per day required. As to cost, if you do the math they are not a whole lot cheaper than Pop Rocks unless you find a REALLY good deal, but still a very good option for many individuals.

[LilyandBaron]

Wanted to share since I’ve used this forum to handle my horse’s ulcers. He gets them in the fall due to either clover or just switching to more hay. I did not scope, but did acupressure to confirm stomach ulcers. Treated with blue pop rocks, but on maintenance now. Re-checked acupressure points and no ulcers! So, I have two small hole hay nets, one 2" for 2 flakes grass hay, one 1 1/2" holes for 1 flake alfalfa, am and pm. He gets a small amount of Enrich 32, am/pm, and for supplements, 2 tsps slippery elm bark powder, 5 papaya enzyme tabs, and 1/2 cup slow juice, all am/pm as well. Our barn does 12 hours turnout and provides gorgeous round bales in the winter. I plan to use blue pop rocks for prevention every fall, but this regimen worked, and pretty cheap! Thanks to all the Cothers posts on what worked for them, we found a good program for us. Good luck!