Best "shoes" for occasional carriage horse??

Hi- I have a Percheron that I would like to use on asphalt roads once a month to give carriage tours in my town. The tour is just about one mile long.

I keep my horse free to come and go with a run-in shed. He is not stalled, and I really don’t want to have to keep him stalled.

What kind of shoes/boots would you recommend for this situation? I am worried that having him walk or trot on the road for even a short distance could be harmful.

I would prefer not to use traditional iron nail-on shoes as he is pastured with other horses. My farrier says his hooves are in very good condition. He suggested rubber nail-on shoes but on other boards, I have read that rubber shoes cause too much stress on drafts because they don’t allow any natural slippage.

Opinions? Suggestions? Websites? Thanks.:slight_smile:

It depends:

On his conformation and footform and way of going.

The weight of the carriage and it’s passengers.

The type of vehicle and his harness: e.g. brakes? britching?

The sort of terrain you’re on - surface and incline

Post 7 in the FAQ’s gives some general pointers about shoeing needs for driving horses:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=196535

You’d be best asking your farrier who will have seen the horse.

You may also find this a good resource for professional advice:

http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/index.php

Aspalt is not concrete. It is much softer and usually, they don’t slip too much.

Steel shoes with 1/2 inch rubber tread are not harmful. I don’t know where you read that, but they are just regular shoes, with tire tread type rubber on them. They work wonderfully but with use, like miles each day, they do wear out and they are relatively expensive. I actually don’t understand how anyone would see them as harmful. Can you explain better? My only issue is that the frog doesn’t touch the ground, but the frog rarely does with regular shoes either. See Remuda Tire Company:
http://www.remudatire.com/
I love these shoes!

ONE MILE once a month is not a lot of miles. If he doesn’t crack up, has no issues, isn’t overweight, I would keep him barefoot and just don’t trot the whole way. Honestly, ONE MILE!!!

I suppose he is a kicker in the pasture and that is you issues with shoes? If so, and you feel shoes are a must, then put regular shoes on the fronts, where most of your wear and tear is and leave the backs alone.

Remember, a driving horse does not have weight on his back, like a riding horse. There is a bit of weight from the shafts, but it is minimal compared to a rider. The wear and tear on the joints tends to be less.

You might be thinking too hard here.

Ditto… if the hooves are properly trimmed/balanced (no flaring), he should be just fine.

Otherwise, consider www.hoofwings.com - the 4 carriage horses in Helen, GA are all in Hoofwings alllll day :slight_smile:

Are you talking about 1 mile 1 time a month or do you mean you do tours (Plural) one day a month and you actually drive many miles on that day?

If its the short drive answer then unless the footing is slippery or rocky and you think you need shoes to protect his feet, I’m not sure why you would use shoes at all

If longer, have you had problems with his feet wearing or breaking up excessively doing this? If so you will need shoes and others have made suggestions for that. If not, why not continue as is unless you develop an issue?

[QUOTE Can you explain better?
ONE MILE once a month is not a lot of miles. If he doesn’t crack up, has no issues, isn’t overweight, I would keep him barefoot and just don’t trot the whole way. Honestly, ONE MILE!!!
I suppose he is a kicker in the pasture and that is you issues with shoes?
You might be thinking too hard here.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your responses, and I will try to explain better. I have read some very anti-rubber shoes things on internet group sites for carriage horses and drivers. I am VERY unfamiliar with draft horses and larger carriages. They are not very common down here at all. I now find myself with two (drafts) because of being very soft-hearted. They are both Percherons and their photos are on my site, which is listed in my signature below. One, the mare, came with registration papers – she was an auction save. The other came with his carriage as a “package deal”.

My farrier is not vary familiar with draft horses either because there are not many of them here-- he has told me that he may have had about a dozen draft horses to work on in his whole career. Right now, he says he trims and shoes one Shire or Shire cross in another town and trims a team of Belgians in another parish.

Also, he charges me the same price for trimming each of the two drafts as he does for trimming my other horses, so I know he isn’t that familiar because I understand that most farriers charge more per horse for trimming drafts. He has been a farrier-- and he did attend an accredited school and did an apprenticeship-- since 1983. He is considered one of the best in our area, and is in demand. I like him because he takes his time and is never rough or short with a horse. All of my horses like him, too.

Most of my experience is with Tennessee Walking Horses – liteshod flatshod horses only. I used shoes on my horses when I was showing-- 20 years ago. All I do now is pleasure ride – I think that is what the British call “hacking” in the fields and pastures near my home. Occasionally I have to ride for less than half a mile on the asphalt road to get from one pasture to another. Since most of my pleasure riding is in fields and pastures, I keep my horses barefooted now.

My driving experience is limited to showing TWHs to cart in a few classes about 20 years ago- the class was called pleasure driving TWH to cart, and to driving a mule hitched to a farm wagon, and using a chunky 14 hand Morgan cross, and now the Percheron mare to harrow my pastures using a forecart and chain harrow.

As far as I know, Barney, the Perchie gelding, is not a kicker-- he seems very gentle, and in the time I have had him, I have not seen him kick. When another horse bit him in the rump to move him, he did raise one hind leg, but he did not kick.

As for his way of going-- well, I have not hitched him up since he arrived because he is thin-- though he has been slowly and steadily gaining weight. When loose in the pasture- he can move surprisingly fast for something so big. He trots, and I consider his action pretty animated- he really lifts those big feet. I am not at all used to looking at trotting horses, so I am not qualified to give a good assessment of his way of going or action. When he gallops at liberty, he really pounds the ground. My daughter says it sounds like she thinks an elephant would sound.:slight_smile:

I have never allowed any horses to be out together with shoes on for as long as I have owned horses-- maybe I’m a ninny or a worrywart, but I figure why take a chance of having a horse get kicked by a horse wearing metal shoes?

I have also been reading quite a lot on the internet groups about all kinds of “new” options for protecting horses’ feet-- boots of various makes, glue-on shoes and rubber shoes.

When I actually start offering the carriage ride tours, I will be using a Roberts brand vis-a-vis which is metal, wood and fiberglass and weighs about 1,000 lbs empty give-or-take a few pounds. The carriage does have hydraulic brakes on the rear axle. I bought the carrage used, and am working on getting it looking nice and being in proper working condition. Barney came with the carriage as did his harness, that was the “package deal”. (I have a post elsewhere on COTH hoping someone might know him.)

I have been told that these carriages accomodate six passengers and a driver and assistant (footman?) I will be very careful about not over-loading, because my primary concern is my horse, not making money.

Barney will travel a bit more than just one mile, he will travel three with a loaded carriage, and then about 3/4 mile from home and back at the beginning and end of the tour time. I thought I would offer three tours (stretched out between 8am-12pm - market hours) with at least a half hour rest between each tour) each Market Day (first Saturday of the month).

Most of the way, the going is pretty level with gentle grade changes-- nothing like the hills of San Francisco, but not totally flat like New Orleans. There are two pretty high grade changes or “hills” on the route, but he will be going downhill, not uphill for these.

I am just about at retirement age, and I am trying to combine my life-long interest in and love of horses with a “fun” business that will allow me to spend most of my time around my horses. I also do some academic tutoring, and will begin offering some basic riding and horse care lessons. I hope eventually to offer carriage rental for weddings, etc. in town only. All the churches are within about a mile of my home as well. Clinton is a small historic town founded in 1824 with fewer than 2,000 residents. The whole parish (county) only has about 15,000 residents, most of them in one of the six towns here.

I appreciate all and any advice. There are a couple of people around here have used drafts and draft croses for farming, and there is one other woman who pleasure drives-- she has ponies and little metal carts, so the place isn’t exactly crawling with experts.

[QUOTE=elysianfieldsfarm;4673141]

I would prefer not to use traditional iron nail-on shoes as he is pastured with other horses. My farrier says his hooves are in very good condition. He suggested rubber nail-on shoes but on other boards, I have read that rubber shoes cause too much stress on drafts because they don’t allow any natural slippage.

Opinions? Suggestions? Websites? Thanks.:)[/QUOTE]
This is true. Rubber sucks as does plastic. Use a regular flat steel with toe clips. Have your shoer drill and tap so you can add traction increasing studs just when needed.

[QUOTE=NoBSshoer;4673981]
This is true. Rubber sucks as does plastic. Use a regular flat steel with toe clips. Have your shoer drill and tap so you can add traction increasing studs just when needed.[/QUOTE]

Thanks but the point is that STEEL shoes of any kind are NOT an option-- I am looking for opinions about the best substitute. I am especially interested in shoes or boots that can be put on and taken off – without the aid of a farrier. Sorry I wasn’t clear.

It’s a problem because there are so many variables, and no one sees them except you and your inexperienced (to drafts) farrier. I really wish you the best. Maybe trial and error will have to be your guide.

I have had a Q pertaining to post #7. Thomas made the post, but anyone can probably answer. When speaking of clips on the front shoes, I don’t believe it states toe or heel clips. I believe the rears said heel clips to help keep the shoes on. We’re only using fronts right niw, no clips, and I want to try them and see how we do. I think Wednesday (tomorrow) is farrier day.

[QUOTE=elysianfieldsfarm;4674106]
Thanks but the point is that STEEL shoes of any kind are NOT an option-- I am looking for opinions about the best substitute. I am especially interested in shoes or boots that can be put on and taken off – without the aid of a farrier. Sorry I wasn’t clear.[/QUOTE]
And their not an option why? Anything else is substandard.

[QUOTE=Yip;4674157]

I have had a Q pertaining to post #7. Thomas made the post, but anyone can probably answer. When speaking of clips on the front shoes, I don’t believe it states toe or heel clips. I believe the rears said heel clips to help keep the shoes on. We’re only using fronts right niw, no clips, and I want to try them and see how we do. I think Wednesday (tomorrow) is farrier day.[/QUOTE]
There is no hard and fast rule to it but toe clips are most often used on the front shoes of riding horses and quarter clips (not heel) on hinds. On driving horses is most often toe clips all round. As I said there is no hard and fast rule but doing it in that style is most traditional.

[QUOTE=NoBSshoer;4674174]
And their not an option why? Anything else is substandard.=QUOTE]

Metal shoes—:no:
NOT an option because I NEVER put horses with shoes on loose in my pasture and/or fields together, and I currently do not have enough room to dedicate one of my turnouts exclusively to one horse because hje is wearing iron/steel/ metal shoes-- AND I do not wish to have to keep a shod horse stalled up all the time.

I am not going to keep a horse iron shod AND stalled up just for a couple hours of work traveling a few miles each month.

I wanted knowledgable advice about metal shoe substitutes, like boots. The only kind I have seen in use here are easy boots?-- I think that is their name. I was hoping someone on this site had experience with these kinds of shoeing options.:slight_smile:

When I drove my horse on roads regularly (several miles a day, several days a week) I used steel shoes with little studs in the back and a touch of borium on the front. She was shod on all four and turned out with other horses. Metal without traction added can be slick on asphalt. I hadn’t heard of the metal with rubber type shoes.

A couple years later at another barn I was riding more than driving and for a while I had her barefoot. When I rode on the roads just at a walk with just a little trotting I just left her barefoot (even up to two miles or so several days a week). If we were doing more trotting or longer distances I put easy boots on her. The main problems with the road work were it wears the feet down if there’s no protection.

I don’t know if they make easy boots in draft sizes but that would be a simple solution. With a little practice they are easy to put on and off, and for that kind of work they are not likely to cause problems (I rode with mine through deep mud, cantering, etc and only once had one slip and come off.)

Do make sure you get him fit enough to pull the weight for that distance on that surface with whatever foot solution you come up with. Work up to it and do it regularly with the same setup you will use in the tours. It’s not “hard” work compared to some things but if he’s not used to it he might cramp up or get sore feet or legs from the unfamiliar work or even the unfamiliar boots/temporary shoes. You probably know that, but just thought I’d throw it out there.

The gal we take lessons from has used keg shoes and OM boots. I don’t know the circumstances that made her switch from one to the other.

When she shoes, I believe she only does the fronts. She said the OMs have lasted a long time. She drives her Morgan on the roads hundreds of miles, and both options have worked for her.

My farrier doesn’t like boots on driving horses because they go commonly on the forehand. He thinks boots give too much traction and cause them to rely on that and go even more on the forehand, rather than trying to use the rear engine. As someone else said, it’s different undersaddle when there are seat and leg aids available…

I understand why you wouldn’t want to shoe a horse just for a few hours work. I don’t understand why you won’t leave a shod horse on turnout with the others, unless your horses don’t get along. Mine are out 24/7 and both shod, one on all fours. They don’t love each other, but they never kick each other. I haven’t notied that shoes are any harder on the soaking wet muddy pasture than unshod feet. It all sucks when you deal with turf and mud.

I would never use shoes as a reason to keep a horse stalled. Your Perch. is probably going to do just fine barefoot. Why not try it and see what happens/ Maybe shoes/boots will become a non-issue.

I would caution you going into it slowly as well. I would hope he would not be pastured the rest of the month, and only worked the one day, or else you are asking for problems. He will need to be fit and worked at least a few times a week to condition him.

Have you ever heard of tying up, or EPSM?
Check out Beth Valentine DVM and rural heritage site for more information on that.

Also, Meader’s Supply up here in NH carries draft items and is also a horse shoe supply company.
However, I have never found them to be that knowledgable over the phone or in the store. They are mostly clerks hired to do the books, or so it seems whenever I go in…they really know like next to nothing. But, they might have those boots you are interested in. They also have a catalog you can download and peruse.

Good luck.
PS, thanks for saving these guys from a worse fate. I love the drafts and hate how they are used and then sent on to a very undeserving death for most of them.

This sure seems the perfect answer to me!

After reading the OP’s updates, I will reiterate Hoofwings. They’re easy to measure for, order and then put on. You can watch a real-time video on the site if you don’t believe me.

I know you were asking about shoes, but don’t forget you will be operating a commercial business and will need commercial insurance.

Also, have someone knowledgeable go over the Roberts carriage on a routine basis especially the welds. The company has had issues with welds before

[QUOTE=elysianfieldsfarm;4674558]

[QUOTE=NoBSshoer;4674174]And their not an option why? Anything else is substandard.=QUOTE]

Metal shoes—:no:
NOT an option because I NEVER put horses with shoes on loose in my pasture and/or fields together, and I currently do not have enough room to dedicate one of my turnouts exclusively to one horse because hje is wearing iron/steel/ metal shoes-- AND I do not wish to have to keep a shod horse stalled up all the time.

I am not going to keep a horse iron shod AND stalled up just for a couple hours of work traveling a few miles each month.

I wanted knowledgable advice about metal shoe substitutes, like boots. The only kind I have seen in use here are easy boots?-- I think that is their name. I was hoping someone on this site had experience with these kinds of shoeing options.:)[/QUOTE]

I understand completely where you are coming from. ALL of my horses are barefoot and will forever remain that way unless I can be convinced that nailing steel shoes to their feet is necessary for thier health and well-being (don’t see it happening any time soon though :cool:). I do use hoof boots when riding in rough or unknown terrain. The brand of boots I use are Old Mac’s G2. I don’t know if they make them big enough for your drafty though. I have seen draft horses with the hoofwings (http://www.hoofwings.com/). The folks that run this business are very knowlegeable and friendly. They started out making only custom boots, they now have standard sized boots for sale off the shelf but they still make custom boots. They do tend to be a little pricey but the boots will pay for themselves soon enough in farrier cost savings.

[QUOTE=PRS;4675468]

[QUOTE=elysianfieldsfarm;4674558]

I understand completely where you are coming from. ALL of my horses are barefoot and will forever remain that way unless I can be convinced that nailing steel shoes to their feet is necessary for thier health and well-being (don’t see it happening any time soon though :cool:).[/QUOTE] And what precisely is the reason for this hard line belief?

They do tend to be a little pricey but the boots will pay for themselves soon enough in farrier cost savings.
Booties never fit properly, transmit too much shock to the leg by decelerating forces, tend to rub and cause sores, trap bacteria, interfere with natural hoof function. In short, they suck. All of them. If pinching pennies and cutting costs is your reasoning just go ahead and say so. They are in no way shape or form an acceptable substitute for proper shoeing.

:eek:

:lol: :lol: :lol: