Beware [edit]

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Thank you for you and @DownYonder speaking up.

It sure seems like there is a “puppy mill” type dynamic going on with the sudden increase in an obscure breed here in the US, along with this group of people who keep on insisting that these horses … who are purpose bred harness horses… are desirable for dressage, hunters, and eventing.

I see nothing at all wrong with enjoying breeds other than warmbloods, especially for certain attributes. I myself have a soft spot for Arab crosses… they can be nice for short amateurs like myself But… it seems like the people extolling the virtues of the DHH are supporting this trend of comparing them to warmbloods, and I am sorry… but they are not as suitable for sport as a warmblood. Also… the Amish really aren’t breeding selectively. Look at the number of DHH and DHH crosses getting dumped at auctions. Look at the ADHHA studbook - over 900 foals by Dondersteen! That’s a puppy mill situation. You will not find a top tier US Warmblood stallion, who WAS bred selectively, who has anywhere remotely close to that number of get on the ground. Many nice, inspected, licensed Warmblood stallions … with great competition records… only breed 10 mares (give or take a few) in a given season.

I don’t know. I just find this recurrent thinking among some people that MORE DHH crosses need to be bred for riding sport… well… it’s some strange sort of logic.

[Warmblood1]

How long has Dondersteen been standing at stud?

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

He was born in 2008. Looks like there was a transfer of ownership in August of 2012. The ADHHA database shows first (registered) foals were born in Spring of 2012. And he has foals registered in ADHHA that were born in 2023. Soooo… 944 registered foals over the course of approximately 10 years.

Some food for thought. Quidam De Revel, considered one of the greatest jumper stallions of all time, who produced 165 recorded offspring who competed at the 1.60 m + level, and who stood at stud from 1987 up until very recently (maybe his frozen is still available and viable? I’m not sure) thanks to artificial insemination…

He has just over 3600 recorded offspring in Horsetelex. Soooo… that’s a bit over 30 years of breeding, internationally used by breeders of jumpers, and most of his offspring were a result of artificial insemination. So just over one hundred offspring per year on average. Compare that to Dondersteen who stood locally in the Midwest, was used for harness breeding and used with a wide range of mares, bred mostly by live cover. Looks like he averaged around 90 foals per year.

[Salty]

That’s a wonderful way to welcome in the New Year! Could also do a Spring Into Spring for the equinox.

[thereadinghorse]

It’s a tradition. Not just us, but riders in general do this (at least in germany).

[exvet]

It sounds like you are assuming that the only way I think one can cull is by sending a horse to slaughter. I don’t. There are those that enter the breeding shed that can’t be ridden competively any more or at all, maybe not by general practice but it does happen. My point is those horses selected to breed and producing ‘approved’ stock of one registry or another are more strictly regulated there than here. Those allowed to continue to breed are also more objectively evaluated with each year of produce before being bred again and if not producing as expected are removed from the gene pool, sometimes just by way of being gelded. I assume that is why you don’t hear about such large numbers of breeding disasters or neglect situations of the proportion we too frequently deal with here.

[thereadinghorse]

I’m sorry. I only know culling as slaughter/killing. I’m not a native english speaker.

[Warmblood1]

I believe you are referring to soft versus hard culling. Soft meaning removing from breeding (often by selling, rehoming, castration, etc). Hard culling involving euthanasia. Lots of stallions are now soft culled and simply gelded and sold as riding horses.

[Willesdon]

“Cull” is a slightly difficult word. One meaning is to reduce a population by selective slaughter. The other meaning is to select from a large quantity or from a variety of sources. So culling a breeding herd generally means selecting the best example of the traits required and selling off the rest. A racehorse breeder will likely cull a mare that fails to produce race winning offspring but she might make an excellent breeding mare for Eventing.

[Janet]

@Willesdon

“Cull” is a slightly difficult word.

I went to the OED.
The ORIGINAL meaning (going back to 1330) is to pick or select the BEST out of a large group.
By 1637 it meant to collect in general, for instance to cull herbs.
Since 1889 it has also meant to pick out livestock according to their quality.

It is only since 1934 that it has acquired the meaning to select and kill (typically wild animals) to “improve the stock”, or reduce the population.

[thereadinghorse]

Either way, thanks for the clarification. I really thought exvet was talking about europeans immediately killing their horses when not suitable for the wanted purpose I think she/he is absolutely right, that we are kinda strict about which animals we use to breed. So it seems like at the end we have the same opinion. Sorry. I’m quite fluent in english, but it’s still only a language I learned in school and apart from writing on here and watching shows and youtube videos in english I have no real practice at all, so there might be misunderstandings of which I’m not aware

[fanfayre]

I think you’re doing REMARKABLY! I wish I had such a wonderful command of grammar that you seem to (see what I mean? )

[jvanrens]

Your english is excellent! I have cousins in Holland who speak excellent english as well. Makes me embarrassed at my lack of ability to speak a second language. 10 years of french classes were wasted on me.

[thereadinghorse]

Aww. You’re so nice. I’m not sure wether or not my english is any good I learned the usual amount of school english in school and then I started watching youtube videos in english some years ago, so I’m used to listen to it and adapted quite a few things, but I’m still struggeling sometimes and have to look up words. And my grammar… I don’t know. I don’t think about it. I just write and hope, it’s okay But, in general if you want to learn a foreign language: Listen to it! That’s what has helped me most. School english is very stiff, but listening to actual people is key. Next thing I wanna improve is pronounciation, but that is difficult when there’s nobody to talk to. My latest achievment is being able to distinguish brits, americans and aussies My own english sounds like a brit that sometimes forgets he’s one

[thereadinghorse]

French was wasted on me, too I’m able to tell my name, ask how it goes and say, that I can NOT speak french

[jvanrens]

I’ve been listening to French for years, and not to mention Dutch since my parents spoke it a fair bit in the home. The French I can catch what the general conversation is about, but I cannot contribute, the Dutch, not at all.

[jvanrens]

I can say merci, bonne journey and je ne parlez pas francais. LOL

ETA a missing french word.

[cristalle]

@thereadinghorse

My latest achievment is being able to distinguish brits, americans and aussies My own english sounds like a brit that sometimes forgets he’s one

Try watching the television shows Shetland, or Coronation Street, lol! I am a native English speaker raised by my UK family and I sit there dumbfounded!
Your English is great, good for you! I used to be quite fluent in both German and French, with a smattering of Italian and Russian, but now I am lucky to be able to say and understand simple sentences and words.
Years of watching Italian soccer league hasn’t helped at all!

[DownYonder]

I had two years of French in high school and two years in college and retained quite a bit for a while. I was never particularly fluent though - I could mostly understand what people were saying and I could read it okay, but I would bumble my way through speaking or writing it. DH took six years of French in middle school/high school, and we used to use a bit of French in conversations but we haven’t done that in years so my French has gotten very, very rusty.

I started teaching myself German many years ago (my grandfather’s parents were German immigrants and the first language he learned was German). I never got very good at it but when I started going to Germany fairly regularly back in the early 00’s, I started picking it up again. But alas, I have let it fall by the wayside over the past decade or so. Funny story - I accidentally picked a Peloton class in German the other day. It was a weight-training class and I couldn’t understand much of what the guy was saying but I was able to keep up because I could see what he was doing. But OMG - I felt like a recruit in the German Army. The instructor was very animated and enthusiastic and was no doubt trying to keep everyone energized and encouraged, but he was, um - VERY German - i.e., quite authoritative in the way he was barking out orders. I kept having visions of him being a drill instructor in the German Army. It made me giggle.

[thereadinghorse]

Just trying my way through Coronation Street. That’s indeed difficult. I get what they’re saying, but context is helping me a lot

I had french for 4 years in school but always hated it because of the many irregularities. English is just so much easier.

And: I would hate to learn german. Just as many weird things as french.

Yelling germans always sound… harsh Ther’s no way around sounding harsh when yelling in our language. But we can speak soft and nice, too

Sometimes I wish I had somebody to talk english to. I torture my bf from time to time, but he hates english, isn’t fluent at all, just understands me, if I talk slowly So this isn’t really helping me much Last time I really talked to somebody was 2021 when watching Kentucky Derby with two girls, of which one of them was american. After that I never talked to any native speaker again. It’s been a while