Big movers killing dressage star fantasies

[Gloria]

Hahaha. The joy of unable to make the horse walk a straight line… Well, it isn’t just the big bad advanced horses. It is also the small less advanced sensitive ones. I couldn’t even make my own 14.2 hand Morgan walk that damn straight line. Well, until I learnt to carry myself better, and my life (and his) became better. Oh and he let me know how displeased he was when I was asking him to use more core, yet restricting him to do so. He is one pistol of powerhouse, who was just gone through two months’ boot camp with my trainer.

The other day I was watching Carl Hester’s ride on Youtube. And instead of watching how nice the horse was going, all I could do was staring at how much core that guy must have. Maybe it was because it happened the day after my Pilates instructor whipped my ass. I kept thinking, “ow, oW, OW, I wouldn’t last that level of core he demonstrated for thirty seconds.”

[Ganesha]

@Pocket Pony

That’s not the Beastie Boys…

“Baby Got Back” is by Sir Mix-a-Lot.

Ooops:mad:

[Escada]

Please don’t give up! It takes time to get the knack of riding the big movers. You’ll get there. I would try to ride him regularly if you can.

[SendenHorse]

Some warmbloods are wider barreled horses so it is a bad fit for some riders- does not allow some people to get a leg around them. it is not always lack of skills, it might be a mismatch for the rider.
Try a few different sizes and types of big moving WBs, it might help you understand the situation

[netg]

@Ganesha

Imagine you’ve been taking lessons for some time, doing well at lower levels at shows, have no trouble sitting the trot, get praised for your canter seat, etc. You feel like you’re pretty good! Then you get to sit on an advanced horse, and you realize that one reason you can sit well is you’ve been riding pretty easy to sit horses that don’t take as much core strength and athleticism to ride. Plus, you’ve never really ridden a powerful extension. Suddenly your eyes are opened to where you actually are.

I totally get that! We all get humbled at some point on the journey.

I started out with extremely bendy, sensitive horses who require I ride right or they “adjust” to whatever I’m doing as well as my TB used to have the most impossible trot to sit I’d ever ridden due to tight back (and it took YEARS to get it sittable as it is now), so I got humbled from the start. But have easier gaits to ride and horses who aren’t as reactive at first, and it becomes humbling later on. Really, we should all start with the easier gaits and work toward riding the harder gaits. My gelding had been out of work since the previous eventing season when I got him, and his trot was really easy to sit when I had him on trial - it was only as he got more fit and started moving bigger with a slightly looser back that the short, tight back added all kinds of twist and different movement in the saddle I couldn’t sit. And for YEARS I worked on getting him to relax in his back - to the now relatively easy trot.

[ThreeFigs]

I no longer desire to ride huge movers, either. At 63, my back is still pretty supple and my core is still pretty strong, but I know my limits. There are nice horses out there who can perform the upper level skills but are easier to ride than a Totilas.

You just have to find the right horse and be OK with maybe not having those flashy, flashy gaits. Yeah, you might not get to the Olympics, but so few of us do. I’d be pleased to ride a competent PSG test at this point!

[Ganesha]

@ThreeFigs

You just have to find the right horse and be OK with maybe not having those flashy, flashy gaits. Yeah, you might not get to the Olympics, but so few of us do. I’d be pleased to ride a competent PSG test at this point!

I would totally be thrilled to ride PSG someday! If I get there every friend and relative of mine is getting large framed pictures of me in action and will be forced to watch the videos.

[kcmel]

I’ve only ever ridden a big mover once, a Dutch WB who was in my price range because he didn’t have the “fire” to do the upper levels. I couldn’t even POST his trot! My husband was with me and he was looking at me like WTH? The seller asked me if I had every ridden a WB before and I said not one like this! It was pretty funny–not sure if I destroyed the video; I hope so!

[Mondo]

IME the really big movers are easier to sit - generally because they have a swinging back and come with some built in self-carriage. If you’ve got him through and on your aids, all that movement shouldn’t be too hard to sit.

I do understand how the OP felt since it was her first time - but don’t give up on your dreams. You’ll get there!

[ThreeFigs]

An ammy of my acquaintance once purchased a WB that even the local pros could not ride at sitting trot. Trying to ride this horse made her defensive in her riding and built some bad habits as “survival mechanisms”

Why put yourself through that? Riding such a beast is not fun…

[beau159]

@Ganesha

Has anyone ridden a great big moving horse and then kinda lowered their standards a bit / gave up their dreams of being a dressage superstar when confronted with what it is really like? This is going to make me sound like such an underachiever but - when I finally had a chance to sit on an advanced horse, who was a big, old-style tank of a Hanoverian, I got a taste of what my “dreams” were all about, and what they would require of me in terms of athleticism and just general skill.

So, midway through my ride with me fumbling around up there, unable to get a canter depart, Mr. Big Advanced Horse came out of a corner and took off across the diagonal coming in a huge extended trot, during which I was simultaneously praying for my life trying to keep up, and thanking the angels for a few moments of something so glorious. Then he just kind of boiled over and started bucking and farting and playing because clearly he had decided to take over the ride.

It was a mess. I was a mess. I was thankful for the experience. But that day I kinda reached the point where I realized the enormous gap between how I rode and what I was aiming at, and decided I was perfectly ok riding something less powerful.

But…wasn’t it a blast to feel all that power???

Now I can’t speak for dressage, but I’m trying to get my body back into shape after having a baby last year, and I did some slow work on pole bending with my boy Red. Good lordy – I forgot how powerful he is, even in slow work! I got left behind a few times and we were just practicing!

I need the practice more than him, to get my timing and fitness back. Even though I sucked at it, it was so much fun. :yes: I missed it!

But, do what makes you HAPPY. That’s the point of having horses!

[Ganesha]

@beau159

But…wasn’t it a blast to feel all that power???
!

Yes! It was glorious and astonishing and humbling all at once.

It was The Sublime (vs The Beautiful), in a Burkean/Kantian sense.

It was a very intense few moments - over time my imagination may have distorted or heightened the memory, but I swear I could hear air rushing in my ears, could see the arena being swept behind me, could feel a sense of being moved forward in space at speed but not quickly. Then there was the one, two appearance of front hooves as they reached in front of the horse.

But it didn’t last very long, as I mentioned, because it boiled over into some YEEHAW antics as Mr Advanced Horse realized that I was but a stunned, ineffective passenger in awe of his physicality.

[atr]

I thought I had it down with my spotty horse, who isn’t a slouch in the trot, and has a very horrible canter, bless him. But moving up to a big moving warmblood? It took me a solid 9 months to be able to sit that trot effectively and comfortably without throttling it back. And the canter? A total act of faith… “sit up, sit back, let go!”

Now, I’m bringing the old man back into work, and I’ve been spoiled. It’s not so much fun, and actually quite painful to my back, to ride those limited gaits again, and I have to be careful not to over-ride him.

[Libby2563]

For me, the ease of sitting the trot depends more on how through the horse is than how big a mover it is. Three comparisons:

1. My older WB who I’ve had for almost 17 years and brought up the levels to GP is not comfortable or easy to sit unless he’s genuinely over his back (which is not easy to achieve, partially due to his natural build/inclination and partially from being ridden/trained by a dumb ammy like me during his formative years). He’s not a big mover at all by warmblood standards.

2. My almost-4-year-old Hanoverian is a much, much better and bigger mover with an active hind leg, but has a naturally good back so he’s been easy to sit from the first day I trotted him when he was like a week under saddle. Perhaps as he builds strength and learns to use his power even better it will require more strength from me too though.

3. The GP horse I’m leasing is a whole different animal than these two. He’s 18.2 with very long legs and a relatively short body. His trot is naturally super lofty and the power he produces is like nothing I’ve ever felt before. With that much suspension, he needs 1,000 half-halts a minute to stay together. So, I am working my butt off but most of it isn’t really to sit the trot (IMO, because he’s so correctly trained and therefore good over his back). I will say though that the first time my coach had me try a medium trot I was pretty sure we were going to blast straight out of the arena, and I did feel like my body was working hard to absorb all the power. (That was also the first time I lessoned on him in a snaffle…she’s a sadist!)

OP, I like your attitude. Good luck with your riding!

[RMLH1212]

I currently ride a 16 yr old TB who was trained to the upper levels, though he was never shown, and I cannot for the life of me sit or even post his biggest trot. He has a wonderful canter but if my legs or hips get in the wrong spot he starts doing flying lead changes. If I’m feeling coordinated, he’s a lot of fun to play around with. His lateral movements are a little rusty/I’m probably cueing them wrong, but he can do passage and piaffe, pirouette, and tempis. I feel honored his owner lets me ride him and when I was looking for my own horse he suggested that I get a well-trained, big, tall horse to ride, but I’m not ready for that. I also took lessons on a school master who was trained to upper level and he was really difficult for me to ride. But the benefits of riding these guys is that when you get it right, it feels amazing and you learn a little bit more each time you get on. Side note, I ended up getting a sweet 4 yr old TB with a lovely trot and a cracked sesamoid as my little project. Lol.

[AppendixQHLover]

I can totally relate to this. My OTTB is a GIANT mover and my body is adjusting. I have to work hard to post his trot when he is pulled together. I tend to hold him back which makes him suck back so that I can post his trot. Bad habit because I don’t want him to suck back but sometimes it is the only way I can post his trot. He is now in my backyard so I expect my level of fitness will go up and our trot work will improve. He had 3 weeks off so we have been working on some ground work again because he seemed to have forgotten how to stand still at the mounting block. silly horse.

I will most likely lease him out or sell him if my riding ability doesn’t improve. Dang horse has so much natural talent.

[ASBJumper]

OP - I think an important distinction needs to be made between being able to shoot for FEI levels (yes, even GP) and getting respectable scores, vs getting to those levels and being internationally competitive.

Big, flamboyant movers with tons of shwung and suspension are not needed for FEI, per se. They are only necessary if you want to be a contender for the likes of WEG or the Olympics. That’s it.

This is a Saddlebred that made it to GP with scores in the 60s (pro rider) - he had average gaits:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qa2rCAMz7k

This is a Saddlebred that competed at Intermediaire I last year and is schooling GP (trained entirely by an amateur) - he has maybe slightly above average gaits:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-GRlOz4XwA

Another Saddlebred that was doing 4th Level and schooling PSG before his amateur owner ran out of funds to keep him in training. He has above average gaits, is very competitive at open shows, yet his middle-aged, amateur owner can still ride him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFOA8hIr9LE

As long as the movement is correct, the horse has impulsion and is tracking up, using itself properly, accepting the aids, and there is harmony and movements are done correctly - it doesn’t matter if the movement itself is not “HUGE”. You will still get good scores and will likely place. Unless you are magically in a place where every single competitor is riding a Verdades clone and every one of the riders is a top talent. But how often does that really happen, at open Dressage shows all over NA?

[Gloria]

@ASBJumper

OP - I think an important distinction needs to be made between being able to shoot for FEI levels (yes, even GP) and getting respectable scores, vs getting to those levels and being internationally competitive.

Big, flamboyant movers with tons of shwung and suspension are not needed for FEI, per se. They are only necessary if you want to be a contender for the likes of WEG or the Olympics. That’s it.

This is a Saddlebred that made it to GP with scores in the 60s (pro rider) - he had average gaits:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qa2rCAMz7k

This is a Saddlebred that competed at Intermediaire I last year and is schooling GP (trained entirely by an amateur) - he has maybe slightly above average gaits:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-GRlOz4XwA

Another Saddlebred that was doing 4th Level and schooling PSG before his amateur owner ran out of funds to keep him in training. He has above average gaits, is very competitive at open shows, yet his middle-aged, amateur owner can still ride him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFOA8hIr9LE

As long as the movement is correct, the horse has impulsion and is tracking up, using itself properly, accepting the aids, and there is harmony and movements are done correctly - it doesn’t matter if the movement itself is not “HUGE”. You will still get good scores and will likely place. Unless you are magically in a place where every single competitor is riding a Verdades clone and every one of the riders is a top talent. But how often does that really happen, at open Dressage shows all over NA?

Ahhh those are some eye candy, ASBJumper.

[HorseKrazy]

@Mondo

IME the really big movers are easier to sit - generally because they have a swinging back and come with some built in self-carriage. If you’ve got him through and on your aids, all that movement shouldn’t be too hard to sit.

I do understand how the OP felt since it was her first time - but don’t give up on your dreams. You’ll get there!

idk, my super flat and small moving quarter horse is pretty easy to sit-but mostly that’s due to her picking 1 speed and 1 speed only and that’s it!

[CarolinaGirl]

So this was back when I was in eventer land, but my trainers horse was a massive mover and jumper. I recall the first dressage lesson I did on him with her trainer. I got done (after sweating buckets) and seriously thought I must have looked like a complete uncoordinated idiot up there bouncing around. She literally told me, “No, not at all. He looked great and I feel the same way every time I ride him.” I still wonder if she was telling me the truth lol. He had a similar jump that I eventually learned to ride very well too and LOVED. He was lofty about everything he did.

Later on I had a dressage instructor that trusted me with her GP horse while I was farm sitting. I couldn’t get a change to save my life on him, but he was fun anyway!
I say don’t give up! You’re not used to the bigger movement, it takes time for your body to adjust when it’s never had to deal with it before! I will add that if you’re not currently doing any kind of exercise program then I highly encourage you to start one. Good core muscles and fitness can help loads!!