Bit Advice for Dressage-Strong Enough to Stop, Gentle Enough not to Impede Forward

[SomedaySoon]

Mare has some contact issues (still learning to accept it consistently) and likes a very steady feel. After some issues with not wanting to go forward or accept contact at all, we re-started with a very gentle bit and moved up to an eggbutt French link a few months ago. She is going OK in that, but now that my hands are better and mare is forward and starting to work properly, my trainer wants something a little stronger – she sometimes likes to hang on the bit and on rare occasion just blows through the bits with a big FU).

We tried a D roller single-jointed snaffle last week, and had a great ride, but it was a little too strong (she was getting behind the bit and backing off) and not dressage legal anyway. Tried a plain loose ring single jointed snaffle and still a little too strong (sucking back, head up).

If it helps, she totally accepts her ported Kimberwick for jumping, and she does not like lozenge bits (which is why we went to the French link).

So, in my search, I’ve noticed that most Ds and loose-rings are thinner than eggbutts. I think a thinner French link eggbutt would work, but can’t find one. Any ideas? Maybe a loose-ring French link? Would a D be a step back? Thanks!

[aaka208]

I’ve had good luck with French link Baucher snaffles.

[SomedaySoon]

[QUOTE=aaka208;8500489]
I’ve had good luck with French link Baucher snaffles.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, but that is what we moved up from

[Lusoluv]

I have a very similar situation with my new mare. She wouldn’t accept contact so put her in a Happy Mouth loose ring with roller center. Once she wasn’t afraid of that and reached to contact she got a bit heavy, so went to eggbutt French link. Contact remained good and as her confidence grew, so did the weight in my hands. I have a mainly dressage background, so started lateral work: leg yields and shoulder in mostly.

Whenever she gets heavy, I put her in shoulder fore or SI. Makes her carry herself vs leaning on me. Also make sure to give frequent breaks during work sessions when bringing a younger horse on. Working on the bit is hard work so being able to discern when a horse is being lazy or tired is important! Dressage legal bits are made to develop the proper training, obedience, etc. without relying on the hardware. If you want to try a thinner french link, you can get a bradoon, though they’re not readily available in the US. Had to get one for my double bridle from England.

[arapaloosa_lady]

Have you tried a thinner version of the French link she likes?

[Huntin_Pony]

Lusolov hit the nail on the head. It’s probably not a bit problem.

It would concern me a bit that your trainer sees it as such.

[SomedaySoon]

Lusoluv, that is exactly us! And we have recently started adding in the lateral work, mostly leg yield, but starting SI this week. A bradoon sounds like it might be what I’m looking for, I’m going to search online later.

Arapaloosa lady–that is what I’m looking for, but I didn’t know if it existed Apparently it may be a bradoon.

Huntin Pony-- my trainer doesn’t think it is a bit problem per se. Sometimes when my mare decides to be a really PIA I have trouble controlling her and we end up in a bit of battle. Most of the time she just leans a little, but, since my hands have become better, my trainer was thinking that, on those fortunately much less frequent occasions, a slightly stronger bit would allow me to be more effective and prevent a battle.

She isn’t a baby horse, she’s 8, but was started badly (and not in dressage) and is very dominant and opinionated (in the “I don’t wanna and you can’t make me” way). It’s funny Lusoluv mentioned lazy–I was joking today that she used to be 80% dominant and 20% lazy, but now its more like 50%/50% so we’re finally getting somewhere b/c lazy is way easier to manage I’ve also had to learn to make everything fun and interesting for her, so now she’s more engaged in the work and wants to play.

She is generally coming along well and we are starting to do more advanced work now that her mind and fitness are there, so my trainer also liked the idea of something less “baby horse” and more subtle. We just did a dressage clinic today and we both started finding a really good balance of contact and release. I discovered that what I’ve been thinking of as a release she seems to take as me dropping her. And I really started connecting with the inside leg to outside rein in a way that she has never been willing to accept before, and I was supporting her, but she wasn’t leaning, and she was carrying herself! Sorry for the digression, but it was one of those “duh, I’ve been hearing it for years but it just clicked moments”

So, it isn’t a bit “problem”, just us looking for somethiing that might be a bit better

[silverdog]

My horse tends to lean on the bit and resist bending. Does this in dressage and XC - not so much in show jumping. So far good results from a basic French link loose ring for dressage and an eggbutt dr bristle for XC. Had been in a very basic myler D for everything. Added a flash too which seems to help.

[Sannois]

[QUOTE=Huntin’ Pony;8500602]
Lusolov hit the nail on the head. It’s probably not a bit problem.

It would concern me a bit that your trainer sees it as such.[/QUOTE]

Was my very first thought as well!

[2DogsFarm]

A stronger bit won’t win a tug o’ war unless you weigh 1 ton also.
(Says the lady who tried a double-twisted wire snaffle to stop her Jig-On-Trail TB Hunter & tack noseband to stop same Hunter in the ring - neither did squat)

I ride everything in a loosering snaffle - eggbutt for horses with fleshy lips - including WB former GP Jumper who heard that Start buzzer on nearly every ride & my current 13yo TWH who lived his life before me as a trail mount in a shanked bit with a curb chain.
You need to learn to use your core to stop forward motion/pulling.
And, as counter-intuitive as it sounds, Let Go when they pull.

[csaper58]

Maybe this? It is dressage legal, and encourages contact. This is a D ring which is very still in the mouth and helps with turning, but it comes in loose ring and eggbutt.

www.whitehorsetack.com/myler-wide-low-port-dee-snaffle-bit-mb-33-wl/

[merrygoround]

“She isn’t a baby horse, she’s 8, but was started badly (and not in dressage) and is very dominant and opinionated (in the “I don’t wanna and you can’t make me” way). It’s funny Lusoluv mentioned lazy–I was joking today that she used to be 80% dominant and 20% lazy, but now its more like 50%/50% so we’re finally getting somewhere b/c lazy is way easier to manage I’ve also had to learn to make everything fun and interesting for her, so now she’s more engaged in the work and wants to play.”

Is it possible that she just doesn’t understand what you are asking, or that at this point it is beyond her capabilities?

In most cases "heavy in front’ is fixed by more from behind, not stopping the front. As for blowing through aids for a downward, it just requires more correct transitions frequently.

[SonnysMom]

I use the Myler comfort snaffle Baucher. My horse also likes that stability but can get quite strong. I only use it for dressage or a hack around the property. Trail riding and foxhunting I use something different.
It has taken me a long time to figure out that when he does get too forward to not pull back but to bend to the inside, lift inside, drop, lift inside drop. I keep a steady feel to the outside but not a pull. It has taken me a really long time to trust him and me enough to drop that contact (stop pulling back). Learning to stay with my shoulders back instead of curling forward or coming up into a half seat helps. I have more of a hunter backround than a dressage backround so my go to position is much more forward and in a half seat or two point.

[SendenHorse]

all horses lean/pull, all horses blow through the aids, go deep, too hollow, etc. Its just …horses.

what you need, is a half halt. Really. Works wonders

If you rely on a bit, you are missing a foundation of your education. I’m sorry your trainer can’t see this, but it’s common.

16-18mm bits seem to be a great start. Any thinner like 14mm and that is a bradoon (double bridle bit).

Ask your vet to look at the anatomy of the mouth at your next teeth floating. I had my vet draw the shape of my horses’ mouth and it was helpful, as well as measure the width.

[Sticky_Situation]

I agree, it’s not a bit problem.

“Brakes” in dressage don’t come from the bit … They come from your seat and core. Working on strengthening your core might help you to use your seat more effectively and not rely your hands and the bit so much to slow your horse down and help her balance…

It also sounds as though the horse is chronically behind your leg. As counterintuitive as it sounds, she may well be leaning and pulling because she doesn’t have enough “push” from behind to maintain a consistent way of going in a soft contact… Hence the head-in-the-air with a slightly stronger bit. Riding more forward and pushing her up into the contact, rather than trying to bring her back to you using the bit, will probably help fix a lot of what is going wrong.

Has your trainer ever been on her, and if so, how did she go?

IMO, to a large extent, a snaffle is a snaffle is a snaffle. Yes, some horses have slight preferences for one variety over another, but a horse that doesn’t understand contact isn’t going to suddenly figure it out by adding a little more “emergency braking power.”