I just got my young horse back from 4 months of training getting started under saddle. My trainer has been riding him in a single jointed D ring. I rode him before I brought him home and he feels like he’s made of rubber. So bendy and soft to a fault and very prone to going behind the vertical. I want to get him out of the single joint ASAP because I’m sure that isn’t helping. Just not sure where to start with bits for such a green and noodle-y horse that will help him want to seek contact rather than hide behind the bit. I was kinda looking at the KK Ultra and some of the Neue Schule bits. Maybe even a Myler? That is my other horse’s favorite bit but he’s a simple man lol. Of course none of the bits I own fit my young horse because my last 2 horses have worn 5 3/4"-6" bits so I’ll have to buy everything I try.
I used the “Anky” Neue Shule when my noodle was young. He curled too. If your horse is a big warmblood and needs more strength behind like mine was shorten those reins and keep that hind leg stepping under, hill work, poles etc.
Mine is a very lanky quarter horse that I expect to get to 16 hands. But yes he’s still developing strength and learning all of the things. I have a wonderful trainer here at home but she isn’t always UTD on new bit designs.
My noodle goes in a Mullen bit. One very good thing about a mullen is it forces you to equalize pressure. On a greenbean, using that outside rein consistently might be hard to remember when you’re trying to get them to do a lot of circles. But then i work on as loose a rein as possible when starting a youngster, running up the rein quickly when needed and immediately releasing once i get something toward what i want. And i use a MUCH wider hand/arm, so keeping enough pressure on the opposite rein keeps the bit from sliding through their mouth.
I don’t know what other people do, so don’t know if this is the conventional ‘right way’ but it’s my way and works for me and my guys.
What is the rationale for getting him out of a single joint? Not saying it’s wrong, but I also feel like the double-jointed bits are overused. I’ve had good luck with the NovoContact single jointed eggbutt with both of my mares to get them taking contact. One was started western and just didn’t understand contact. The other is really soft in the face and just didn’t want her face touched. I had her in a NS TeamUp when I started her, then put her in a NS Turtle Tactio which was marginally better. I also tried a Fager titanium mullen, which she actually wanted to barge through. She’s been hugely improved in the 4-5 months I’ve had her in the NovoContact. I did try the first mare in the double jointed version of the NC and she HATED it. I like the design of the Fager single jointed bits, and that is what my first mare is going in now, for both her snaffle (loose ring Baucher) and double bridles.
Also don’t discount a mullen mouth. I think often these noodley horses are looking for some stability and a double-jointed bit is the opposite of that.
I’ve just never had luck with single jointed bits. Pretty much every horse I’ve tried them on has either tucked their head behind the bit or been grumpy about any contact on the reins. But those have all been basic $30 single jointed snaffles and not some of the more ergonomic ones like the Novocontact or Fager bits. I’d be open to trying something more ergonomic.
My wet noodle went in a rubber Mullen for 4 months when he first got here. Then we switched to a double jointed snaffle - I think it was a an old HS kk ultra loose ring? It didn’t really help, but the one that really helped was a KK loose ring - one of those angled ones.
It really helped him find some stability. I find it to be kind of a “mushy” bit, it’s not a quick signal, and it rolls over slowly. But it does help encourage correct contact. He is less noodly now that he is almost 5…thank goodness.
Some type of mullen mouth. There’s several to choose from… plastic mouth is nice with some horses. They cost like $10 to purchase. I have my two greenies going in a metal one right now, big tongue groove, full cheeks. IDK what it’s called because I didn’t buy it, it was dumped on me by someone who apparently didn’t want it any more. I haven’t seen another bit like this particular one, but whatever it is, give it a try if you can find one. It’s an “obtuse” tool, but sometimes that works well with one who is overthinking things, or just doesn’t understand. No moving parts, good tongue room. Greenies like this one. I never moved one mare out of it, she never wore another bit in her life.
Yep, I don’t tend to like the cheap single-jointed bits either, but there are some good designs in the higher-end brands. The low end double jointed bits tend to have issues too.
This is a good webinar on bit and bridle fitting with Hilary Clayton; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXaeeFhM8jA
There are a couple other bit fitting webinars on this YouTube channel as well, so you might find something helpful there. Good luck!
Are you unhappy with the progress the trainer made? I don’t get your aversion to the bit. Your horse getting behind the bit means you need to add leg. I don’t think this is a bit issue but a rider issue.
He did a good job but he’s more of a western rider and doesn’t care if the horse is behind the vertical. I want to get him reaching for the bit more but I have not found single jointed bits to be very comfortable for MOST horses and it is easier to get them to want to take the bit in other types.
I think some of the problems may be the western training and not the bit. They think that flexing ( not taking contact) is a good thing. I had one that came from a western starter ( and she needed somebody like him) that was having problems accepting the bit when I lunged her. She would get her tongue over the bit and either slam on the brakes or start bucking. I am pretty sure he had the bit too low in her mouth and that started the behavior. So thinking double jointed bits were the mildest bit I tried that. She hated them. Then I read about using a full cheek snaffle with keepers as a good thing to try because some horses liked a more stable bit. She hated that too. Finally I found a simple single jointed loose ring snaffle. She likes that. Stopped objecting and started reaching for the bit. So I guess you have to try different bits to see what the like best. I am glad I didn’t spend a fortune on the new fancy bits and find out she hated all of them. Some places you can rent bits? Maybe try that.
Depending I use a normal double jointed snaffle. Not a Dr Bristol. My current horse loves the eggbut version. She likes how it’s stable. Other horse loves the loose ring version.
Both are herm springer bits
Double jointed bits are used when the single joint hits the top of the roof of the mouth. Many horses have a lower roof, and dougl jointed bits lie flatter without jointing up to poke the roof of the mouth on SOME horses. Its not “overuse”. its when the bit is right for the horse.
Another type of bit is a baucher, which is held up higher in the corners of the mouth and off the lower bars. It is steadier in the mouth, doesn’t move around with change in contact, and is therefore easier for horses to move into it and accept it when first learning about contact. These bits aren’t “overused”. They are used for a specific purpose.
Yes, I understand that rationale. 
What I see is that people get blinders on and will only look at double jointed bits. Many newer single jointed designs don’t have some of the drawbacks of the older plain snaffles that have the rounded pokey middle part at the joint (see webinar link I posted).
Some of the double-jointed bits with too wide of a lozenge can be really bad too, or designs that allow the bit to collapse a lot so the lozenge can hit the hard palate. Many people don’t do much research on this and just go with what they’re told that double-jointed = good. My horses disagree, but I wouldn’t know that if I hadn’t tried a wider variety of bits. As I explained, I first tried two higher-end lozenge bits on my young horse, and the single-jointed was the ticket to getting her happy in the contact. But the current rhetoric has made many people hesitant to even try them.
Like the OP mentions says, she is familiar with the cheap, older designs that you pick up at the feed store. Of course it’s not equivalent to compare those to a $200 NS or Sprenger to conclude that one basic design is superior to the other.
I have started a lot of greenies in a single joint baucher. It does not move very much at all even with rein pressure, which is something my young noodle horses who are not confident in contact yet have liked.
I used to be pretty against single joints as a general rule but found that with bits and horses there doesn’t seem to be one blanket policy. I have a soft, quiet horse who becomes heavy and almost unrideable in a HS Duo. I have another horse who really took to that bit. So much of it is “play around and see what works”.
One observation about my group of greenies is most of them haven’t liked loose rings. They’ll fuss and fuss in them but an eggbutt with the same mouthpiece they’re fine with.
Well you all have made me reconsider my dislike of single joints a bit. My trainer (at home, not the one that started him) is very much a double joint with a lozenge only type of person and most horses I’ve ridden in my life have already gone in a double jointed or went better when I switched them to a double jointed.
All I have is a cheap old western single joint. What are the best single joints out there? He has a teeny tiny little mouth and a rubber Mullen mouth will not fit in there comfortably. I tried that when I introduced him to wearing a bit and it was just way too thick.
Let me add another complication–the rider’s hands.
As an illustration, with my MS the 10 or so horses I tried Mullen mouth snaffles on DO NOT THINK that mullen mouth bits are good in my hands, and believe me they tell me all about it. My hands have problems from my MS, and what I picked up was that my hands were not steady enough to keep the mullen mouthpiece from “lodging” slantwise in the horse’s mouth, and that I was unable to keep it properly centered in their mouths. The only exception in a snaffle has been the Pee Wee bit, with its really thin mouthpiece and stabilizing side bars. That bit was acceptable within certain limitations.
As my hands deteriorated bits that used to be totally acceptable suddenly became NO, NO, NO! This is why my bit box is full of bits.
Louis Taylor, in his excellent book “Bits, Their History, Use and Misuse” came to this decision about bits. There will be some bits that work very well with your hands, and you can use these particular bits with many different horses. Yes, have a selection of bits that work with your hands so that you can pick the one that works best with your horses mouth, but if this bit does not work well with the limitations of your hands it really does not matter that much if the bit reflects all the peculiarities of that horse’s mouth. His solution for riding many different horses was to use the double bridle, even if the horse had not been trained in a double bridle.
Otherwise the rider has to listen to the horse and if necessary search for that elusive bit with which the horse says “OK, you are no longer hurting my mouth, you are not irritating me so I’ll relax, reach out, and enjoy the contact.” Just because a horse does well with a particular bit with one rider is no guarantee that the horse will find that bit acceptable with a rider whose hands are worse than their regular rider’s hands.
The bit won’t make a difference even though my favorite ia a double joined with a peanut in the middle.
Reins ony control the head and neck, the rest of the horse must be ridden straight. Put you seat and legs on a line or circle and keep the horse between our legs by pushing back into the line with one leg, and using the other leg to support staying on the line.
I disagree. The riding is absolutely important and I’m well aware of that. But if the horse doesn’t find the bit comfortable, even if you ride correctly I find that they will attempt to evade in some way. For example my other horse has had only me as a rider for the last 8 years. If I put a bit in his mouth he doesn’t like he will push his nose out and frantically chew the bit. If I put a bit he likes in his mouth he is happy to take contact and his mouth is quiet. The way I ride is the same either way. The bit can make a HUGE difference. Now my other horse is a very different ride and with only 4 months under saddle is obviously learning a lot and I am learning how to ride him. He is actually pretty quiet in his mouth but really tucks his nose. The last time I had that issue with a horse it improved slightly when I changed from the single jointed bit I was using AND with time and work getting him working from behind better.
