Bit or training: horse sucking bit back with tongue

[CHT]

Back story: Saddleseat type horse. Quite Nervy. Upright neck who likes to thrown her under neck out. Had very bad dental work when I got her. (Had obviously been floated, but very badly). I struggled for a few years to get her to really accept contact and worked with a few upper level coaches who similarly hit a wall with helping her use her back. Accepted that I must be the problem: too clutchy with the reins when mare would spook/bolt/get tense and so took the bit away for close to a year and rode in a rope halter, and a few times in a bosal (showed Western Dressage once). Horse improved. I improved. We have been having fun putzing around at third level movements while I focus more on my other horse.

Today: Decided to put her back in a bit. Chose the last bit I rode her in: a metal mullen mouth. Mare was quite good. Very long in the neck and light in the contact.

Issue: When I asked for something slightly difficult (basic half pass right & smallish circle right), she sucked her tongue back and got it over the bit (twice). Part of why I had put her in the mullen mouth originally is because she would suck the link of a jointed snaffle back with her tongue. Overall, she was better in the bit than in the halter (lighter and longer in her topline). I don’t feel she was sucking her tongue back from bit pressure, but rather that it is a nervous habit. I could be wrong though, and it is possible that I had more contact than I thought.

I had previously tried KK ultra, KK Hanging snaffle, single jointed snaffle and a locking snaffle. I think I tried a plastic bit, but that was an obvious mistake (grabbing with her teeth). She has also gone well in a Jr. Cowhorse curb and seems to like holding that bit the best.

I think next ride I might ride her with the halter, but have her carry the bit and see if she still gets her tongue over…that would at least take bit contact out of the equation.

I feel like I am so close to having a happy little partner, but still missing something. Looking for ideas.

[csaper58]

Since the horse wants the bit, or link of a 3 piece snaffle back on her tongue I would suggest the Neue Schule Verbindend. It was designed for the horse who wants the link further up in it’s mouth.

It comes in a choice of thick or thin mouth piece and several on line stores, (Dressage Extensions is one) have it in their trial programs. Neue Schule has videos of most of their bits on Youtube.

www.nsbits.com/product/verbindend/

If you want a bitless option, Riding Warehouse has a nice sidepull, it is safer than a halter because you can tighten the nose band and keep it in place.

http://www.ridingwarehouse.com/Berli…page-BALL.html

[CHT]

That is an interesting bit. I don’t think I have tried anything like that on her.

The rope halter works well. I have the reins attached to the bottom. I have no issues with it not staying in place as I don’t have any lateral pull on it. She bends off leg and outside rein.

[csaper58]

The NS bits can be tried for $15, for two weeks

I was thinking you where using a regular leather halter, sorry!

[CanteringCarrot]

I use the Neue Schule Verbindend mentioned above. I rented it through a bit bank, and ended up keeping it. My horse would also suck his tongue back and try to or actually get it over the bit. He can also be upright in the neck and very tense on the underside of his neck. His natural defense posture is giraffe.

Since I’ve had him in this bit for the past month or so, he hasn’t tried any tongue sucking antics. Overall he is pretty quiet in the mouth. Still not 100% steady in the contact, but that’s a training issue for us, not for the bit.

[China_Doll]

My bet is he needs some tongue relief. Usually and arch forward Mullen does the trick.

[CHT]

How different is that bit than the single jointed version? I seem to have the single jointed version of it.

I am not sure if bit rentals are available in Canada or how that works. I will need to look into it.

[Cowgirl]

I find the Herm Sprenger Novocontact more effective than the NS Verbindend for this issue. YMMV. I think that horses that pull their tongue back do not like the pressure on their tongue and are actually behind the bit. The Novocontact is designed for horses that do not take contact. I think the verbindend can be too harsh for these horses, as it is so thin and still puts pressure on the tongue and corners of the lips.

[DressageChic2]

my 5yo will also roll his tongue around the bit if tense but he cannot tolerate any bits with a link (goes in to self rollkur pose will NOT take the neck out).

he is best in the sprenger novocontact single joint eggbutt or a thick rubber D snaffle with a single joint. I think the novocontact broke the habit and the rubber D has 100% settled his mouth as he likes thick soft rubbery materials (doesnt like the harder plastic of happy mouth bits or nathe at all)

[CHT]

@Cowgirl

I find the Herm Sprenger Novocontact more effective than the NS Verbindend for this issue. YMMV. I think that horses that pull their tongue back do not like the pressure on their tongue and are actually behind the bit. The Novocontact is designed for horses that do not take contact. I think the verbindend can be too harsh for these horses, as it is so thin and still puts pressure on the tongue and corners of the lips.

I do agree she finds the bit uncomfortable, but I don’t know that the action is a bit evasion. I think it a tension issue (in her back/neck) that carries forward to her tongue/mouth. The issue starts in her back, not in her mouth.

She has a thick tongue and narrow bars. Either of those bits look like they might be options. I have a similarly shaped single jointed bit, but she hated it.