Bit Question - Hunter Legal?

[LucilleBluth]

Recently my trainer and I tried my mare in a Mikmar 2 Ring Elevator. She seems to really like the sweet iron mouth piece and is responding well. I’ve just had a rein on the large ring, and haven’t added a curb rein to the bottom (just like to have the option when we’re having a more technical lesson or need an attitude adjustment).

Obviously, I know that bit is not hunter legal. But what about the Mikmar Watson Snaffle? I plan on trying her in that tomorrow to see if she likes it as much as the elevator. She’s a little on the particular side about her bits. Currently, she’s going in a full cheek waterford or the Mikmar 2 ring. Thanks!

[raisethebar]

I can’t comment on the Mikmar you are asking about but I am actually in the process of getting of the D-Ring Lozenge ones & I know that one is hunter legal. It seems like they are pretty good with saying if it is USEF/USDA maybe see if it says it on there or not. I’m sure you can also email the company as well.

If your Waterford works for your horse, you can always show in that!

[Highflyer]

My understanding is that for hunters it’s not really legal vs. illegal so much as traditional vs. nontraditional. So if it looks like a normal snaffle from the side and the horse goes well in it, it’s fine.

[jhg140]

Yes, a loose ring is hunter legal. Conventional? No.

Doesn’t matter what the mouthpiece is, as long as the side pieces are D/full cheek/loose ring/egg butt/pelham (believe Kimberwicke is legal too, but definitely not seen very often).

[MHM]

The USEF rules are available online to all for free.

The bit the OP asked about looks like it’s allowed under the hunter rules, but might be considered unconventional by some judges, who might penalize for it accordingly.

											SUBCHAPTER HU-4 ATTIRE, TACK AND EQUIPMENT
				HU126 Tack

1. Snaffles, pelhams and full bridles, all with cavesson nose bands, are required.

[LIST=1]

Judges may penalize, but may not eliminate, a horse or pony that competes in a snaffle, pelham, or full bridlethat is unconventional. Unconventional snaffles, pelhams, or full bridles include, but are not limited to, huntergags, kimberwickes, etc.

Judges must eliminate a horse or pony that competes in illegal bits or nosebands. Illegal bits include, but are notlimited to, three rings, gags (other than the hunter gag), et cetera... Illegal nosebands include, but are not limitedto, drop, flash and figure eight nosebands.

[/LIST]

[LovesHorses]

The bit in the photo is unconventional, considered to have a gag effect.

[LovesHorses]

Nevermind. You plan to show in the second bit.

[dani0303]

I won a tricolor at a AA show in the Younger A/O in a loose ring. It’s not the most common bit you’ll see but if it works well for your horse then use it. It won’t cost you any placings.

[findeight]

If you lay down the trip, most mildly unconventional bits, like a loose ring, won’t hurt you at all under a licensed judge.

But they are a convenient place to place blame for some. Usually it was the missed lead, not the loose ring.

[vxf111]

Loose rings are not popular these days but they’re hardly unconventional. They’re one of the couple of bits everyone used “back in days of yore” and you often see them in throwback photos. They’re classic loose rings, and not the one the OP posted, and they are not hugely popular anymore-- but I don’t think it’s fair to say as a general matter that loose rings are unconventional. Unpopular, yes.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/tbt-junior-hunters-double-duty

[Blondie22]

What is a “hunter gag” as discussed in the rules above? I’ve never heard of this.

[Dr_Doolittle]

[QUOTE=vxf111;8983856]
Loose rings are not popular these days but they’re hardly unconventional. They’re one of the couple of bits everyone used “back in days of yore” and you often see them in throwback photos. They’re classic loose rings, and not the one the OP posted, and they are not hugely popular anymore-- but I don’t think it’s fair to say as a general matter that loose rings are unconventional. Unpopular, yes.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/tbt-junior-hunters-double-duty[/QUOTE]

The bit in the photo appears to be a Fulmer full cheek?

I rode in one of those back in the day (early-mid 1970s), and even then it was considered a bit unconventional. I didn’t really do the hunters until later in the 70s (was in Pony Club and did jumpers and dressage and eventing), so it wasn’t an issue

(An absolutely wonderful picture, isn’t it? Simply beautiful form from both horse and rider; and shocker!, even back then the crest release was used, though the auto release was more prevalent.)

[vxf111]

On my phone I can’t see that clearly so you may be right

[MHM]

“(An absolutely wonderful picture, isn’t it? Simply beautiful form from both horse and rider; and shocker!, even back then the crest release was used, though the auto release was more prevalent.)”

The rider in that photo still rides and shows in the amateurs. The house in the background appears in many, many photos from Ox Ridge. I believe it’s still owned by the older gentleman who used to take his dressage horse for a trail ride around the property every morning while smoking a pipe.

[Dr_Doolittle]

[QUOTE=MHM;8984284]
“(An absolutely wonderful picture, isn’t it? Simply beautiful form from both horse and rider; and shocker!, even back then the crest release was used, though the auto release was more prevalent.)”

The rider in that photo still rides and shows in the amateurs. The house in the background appears in many, many photos from Ox Ridge. I believe it’s still owned by the older gentleman who used to take his dressage horse for a trail ride around the property every morning while smoking a pipe. :)[/QUOTE]

Good for her! (From another “old lady” who is still in the saddle )

What an interesting backstory – thanks for sharing

[MHM]

Blondie22, this is an example of a hunter gag. The rein and cheek piece go through slots on the D, to provide some leverage. They’re pretty easy to spot if you’re familiar with them. Some judges don’t mind them, but some judges consider them to be unconventional.

https://www.smartpakequine.com/mobile/pt/8412

[Daventry]

Loose rings are not popular these days but they’re hardly unconventional. They’re one of the couple of bits everyone used “back in days of yore” and you often see them in throwback photos. They’re classic loose rings, and not the one the OP posted, and they are not hugely popular anymore-- but I don’t think it’s fair to say as a general matter that loose rings are unconventional. Unpopular, yes.

Agreed! I am a USEF R Hunter & Hunter Breeding judge as well as a hunter/jumper Steward. I would NOT call a loose ring snaffle an unconventional bit.

[mmeqcenter]

I wouldn’t call a loose ring snaffle an unconventional bit, but I’d call that Mikmar Watson snaffle unconventional. I agree with MHM, some judges may penalize, but it is not illegal.

[OTTB2]

It would most certainly be considered un-conventail, wether or not people notice is another question. After all, bike chain bits are still a thing…

[staceymc]

I own the Mikmar Watson bit, and I definitely would not show in it. Even with the “loose ring” sides it’s rather unconventional looking. Great schooling bit though.