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Bit suggestions for a strong fjord?

Off Course
#1

I got a fjord mare almost a year ago, and in that time my trainer and I have tried six different bits on her. With each one, she’s polite for a few weeks, then she “figures” it out like a raptor and I no longer feel like I have much control. It’s difficult to steer her and slow her down - she’s very heavy on the forehand, with a thick strong neck, and so far every bit just gives her more leverage to pull me around.

We started with a french link - this was like a wet noodle in her mouth - and are currently using a pelham, which she was good in at first but now hates. She’s also been bolting a little bit lately (especially on the way home), so I’m worried this bit is causing her pain.

The other day I tried her in a mechanical hackamore with good results, but I’m worried this is too harsh to use in the long-run. I ride with soft hands, at least! She’s generally a polite, sweet, very forward horse with good ground manners, but she’s super smart and opinionated and I get the sense she was spoiled by her previous owner. We’re working on training, but for now it would be nice to feel more secure.

Anyone with fjord (or strong little drafty horse) experience have any suggestions?

#2

Make sure your saddle really, really fits well. Then, go back to the very beginning with your training. A stronger bit doesn’t fix much. It’s true that you may need something stronger enough that gets her attention while riding out in the open but you need more training in a milder bit so that you can stop her with your seat almost every time.

8 Likes
#3

My rotator cuff feels your pain. I do both dressage and combined driving with my fjord, and my go to bit is a stubben ez control, in both a snaffle and liverpool version. And we did go through a whole lot of snaffles (myler, 3 link, this cool pessoa mullen mouth bit, plain snaffle and so on) trying to find the one he liked…This was about as close as it came except for my plain old liverpool with a slider slot, which he didn’t like so much as recognize it wasn’t the driven dressage bit so it must be SUNDAY and SUNDAY is MARATHONFUNDAY.

I started Xan so we didn’t have the issue of dealing with a horse who got away with resistance, but I’m here to tell you, he thought this whole contact crap was the stupidest idea anyone ever thought of. He was pretty sure his head was mean to be parallel to the ground at pretty much any point except when eating.

And to be fair, he’s built to go that way, and me asking him to carry himself correctly is Very Hard Work, so a lot of his resistance that I personally found more painful, was breaking through to the mental balance between you give, I give and the physical balance where you try to carry yourself just a little bit, and I give some more. I recognized a whole lot of the behavior/evasion was because what I was asking him to do was 5x harder for him than another horse.

I joked to a dressage clinician that I had to be a Human Side Rein for about 5 months. And after making some decent progress in the walk and trot, I still had to resort to draw reins to get the canter. He was happily lunging around in side reins using himself on contact and as soon as I got on, BOING, up went the head… I tried for months for a little give, just a little. Something, anything. Got a big fjat fjord fjuck you for my patience. So I slapped those draw reins on after a lunging session and helped him make the bridge between lunging and riding. Smart little beast, he figured out he was thwarted in about 5 seconds and happily gave in and showed me he was perfectly capable of what I was asking for. I used them on and off for a few more months and put them away for good after that.

But in addition to investing a lot of time (years!) giving Xan the tools to carry himself, I also added ALL the verbal cues, and made them his GOD. Partly because they are required for driving, but also because they could help us out in a pinch. And finally, I told a really good driving clinician that Xan hated a particular bit, back when we were both green and I was concerned (skeert) that he might run off/run through it. That clinician astutely observed that Xan hated it because I took all his evasions away from him.

<Mind. Blown.>

And yes, he was right. I worked though the temper tantrum and came out on the other side with a much happier, more willing pony that let me release my death grip and ultimately we moved up to a much lighter version of that bit in driving (from 2nd slot to rough cheek). Which is all by way of saying my life lesson might be something to consider with your pelham story. And if that is the case, have you considered the next time she bolts, you give her a little of what she asking for, only a whole lot more?

My response to that little move (because make no mistake, if it worked once, she will try it again in the next bit/hack) would be to say “oh you wanna run, do you? Well we are gonna run in a circle of MY choice and we are going to run for as long as I want you to run, and by the way, it’s going to be about 5 minutes longer than you want to run and it is going to be faster than YOU want to run. And then we are going away from home for 5 more minutes. And when we go home if you aren’t a nice little fjord, we are going to do it again.”

Knowing the fjord smarts, they figure out the correct answer in about 1 lesson!

10 Likes
#4

Saddle fit, check for back pain and have her teeth checked - completely and with sedation.

My horse was acting out a bit, fussing with the bit, bucking, etc. He had developed some hooks on his back teeth that were starting to poke his mouth when ridden. They were not apparent in a quick exam by the vet earlier in the year. As soon as that got resolved he went back to being soft in the bridle again.

Assuming all things physical check out ok, you will need to approach her training differently. As goforward said, starting over to reinforce her listening to you. Make sure you don’t let her call the shots anywhere - on the ground or under saddle or she will start to be less and less of a polite, sweet horse with good ground manners, too.

She’s smart so use that - challenge her with new things like ground driving or obstacles (either mounted or from the ground). My preference with smart, opinionated horses is to change the question quickly - even rapid-fire. Lots of changes of direction, gait, etc so that they get used to you calling the shots. Don’t let her have a chance to dictate the plan. Keep training sessions relatively short, because mental challenges can be just as taxing as physical exertion and the last thing you want is to frustrate her because she is tired.

2 Likes
#5

Sounds like “Clinton Anderson for Fjords”!

1 Like
#6

:D:D I watched a friend having that battle, what a brilliant description!

3 Likes
#7

A friend has a Fjord much like what you describe. After going through several bits, it turns out the Fjord is very respectful of a mechanical hackamore. Surprised everyone, but that’s what she’s ridden in now.

1 Like
#8

I played this game for years with very little success. Bits would work for a period of time before the horse would “figure them out” and then get back to his old tricks (and we had take the time to eliminate other considerations like teeth, saddle fit, body/leg/foot soreness, etc).

What ended up working for us was using a drop noseband (properly fitted - don’t fall into the trap of having it too low). Ultimately, I was able to ride the horse in a french link loose ring + the drop noseband for many years. The half halt went through in a way the horse couldn’t ignore (which was his preferred version of telling a rider to take a hike) so the connection was lighter and much less arduous on the rider.

1 Like
#9

Probably closer to Buck Brannamen! :smiley: (we are olde school)

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#10

I ride a Fjord (I don’t own him). The instructor I ride with swears the drop noseband helps enormously to keep him from carting the kids around. I ride him in a plain snaffle, plain noseband, but I have ridden him in the drop, and he was quite nice in it.

Oh, I see I’m the second one to post this idea. Hi, Edre!

1 Like
#11

I trail ride a Halflinger mule, and have for a couple decades now. At one point I thought he had very few nerve endings in his whole body, but as I got smarter he got more sensitive, so apparently, I was wrong about his physical sensitivity.

The problem was that I was taking him way too far out of his comfort zone and then trying to force him to comply with what I wanted to do. It wasn’t that he started out sensitive to the bit and then become less sensitive, so much as the further I took him outside his comfort zone the less sensitive he became. And actually, he’s still that way, but I’ve just gotten a lot smarter about not taking him so far out of his comfort zone.

I rode him in a strong hackamore for awhile, but when he got worked up enough he’d push through that, too.

I’d say that if your mare is permanently desensitizing to bits that she started out sensitized to then that would be a training problem. IOW, she should return to being just as sensitive to the bit (and other aids) as she was at first, as soon as she’s removed from the stressful situation that makes her less sensitive. In fact, she should be gaining in sensitivity to all the aids as she gains experience, even if she temporarily becomes less sensitive when she gets too far out of her comfort zone.

#12

That’s a great description of how Xan is as well. His answer to things I ask for that her thinks he can’t do is to barge forward and put that neck to good use (from his perspective).

When I first started asking him to carry himself and work on contact, we had a lot of those moments but now we have so many building blocks to work with now, when it happens it is like level 2 instead of the old level 7. But make no mistake, it was a lot of discipline, time and effort from both of us to get there.

Also, I use a flash on the noseband, although it’s pretty loose these days. But in the beginning when Mr. Prehensile tongue could get his tongue over any bit, it was helpful.

1 Like
#13

I agree with the Drop Noseband maybe helping. Or just a thicker noseband.

My horse isn’t a Fjord, but has a strong thick little neck, and is very prone to locking it up and pulling. I had never heard of it before, nor met many people who have used it, but I bought a Waterford bit and it’s AMAZING.
Its basically a chain link of little metal balls, and my horse just simply can’t pull against it. It can be quite harsh on the wrong horse, but my horse has a sensitive mouth, and so responds easily with the Waterford without resorting in me having to really use it. I suggest researching it! Its VERY specific and only will work with the right combo but it’s been so helpful. My horse loves it too, he sits and chews on it all day (not ideal looking, but worlds better than a puller) and for horse shows I combo it with a thick noseband to prevent him from opening his mouth. I only would suggest this bit if you truly do have soft hands.

The only downside is it makes him quite foamy from playing with it lol

#14

I can speak as someone who tried a waterford in my “musical bit” exercise - my leading statement with this is that a lot of people absolutely should not use this mouthpiece because their hands are not quiet enough. Due to the design of the bit, the “left hand” “right hand” (flossing or constant picking) action on the bit is very obtrusive with a waterford, especially compared to other types of bits.

The disclaimer aside, the way that the waterford works is that due to the mobility, the horse is unable to really take hold of it and lean onto it. I also like that it is easy enough to find in a variety of cheek pieces (d-ring, eggbutt, o-ring, full cheek) so if you or your horse have a preference on that, it is not difficult to manage to find.

The waterford does present some specific anatomical concerns from a bitting/mouth perspective. I have come across a decent number of horses who absolutely despise the bit (constantly working it, agitated, won’t relax) due to several factors. There is quite a bit of movement - some horses hate that and want a more stable bit. For horses with a low palate, thick tongue or thick/fleshy cheeks, it may not fit so comfortably (but again, this is always going to be horse-specific). Some horses may respond well to the bit in terms of the pulling component but blow through it when the half halt is applied.

It didn’t end up working for me as my horse ultimately figured out that, while he couldn’t lean on the bit, he could end up curling up behind the bit/contact and ignore the halfhalt - partly a “him” thing, but partly an “I can ignore this bit” thing. It was after we tried the waterford that we ended up settling on the drop noseband, which was the solution that actually stuck with us (for years).

2 Likes
#15

Where to start…First, stop the bit a month trials. Pick what has worked best for you so far and stick with it. As you’ve already learned, these Fjords are very smart and she has your number on that. If you are consistent and insistent, she will soon learn that that gig is up.

If she has been bolting and it worries you, ride in an arena for now. Be safe. You’ll both be happier. Your body will relax and so will hers. As calm an outward demeanor as these Fjords have, they can be internal worriers and pleasers that are very quick to read your tension. Your tension may be part of the reason she feels a need to bolt. I have two Fjords and one, although he is not at all a skidish horse, very much gets his confidence from his rider/handler.

Once you’ve helped your mare find her balance and lightness you’ll be able to get her out in the open again. All things in their due time. During the first year or so of owning our older Fjord, he would often buck going into the canter. It was never a nasty buck, just an “oh, *hit where am I supposed to put my feet so I don’t end up on my nose.” As my kids became more balanced riders and Mr. Fjord developed better balance, the buck disappeared and has never resurfaced. He’s quite opinionated and will let a rider know if he thinks he is not being treated well. In his early days, when work came harder for him, he’d even give a defiant grunt when he didn’t want to do what he was asked. If you grunted back at him, he’d give a head shake as if to say “fjcuk you”, but he would comply. He also has a great sense of humor.

I took over the ride on what had been my (now adult) kids’ Fjord 6 or 7 years ago after many years with my very soft mouthed TB. At first I really hated riding him because he was sooo heavy in my hands. And yes, he had one powerful neck that could pull you right out of the saddle if you didn’t have a very strong core. I’m 5’9" and have ridden for 35+ years, so no peanut of a rider. Still there were days.

I started out by going back to square one, pretending he was a green horse who knew nothing. We started with some ground work, but frankly we both enjoy ridden work more. He is very game and loves to work and please. His body is just built in a way that makes lightness more challenging than for some other breeds. He is very smart and actually quite nibble with his feet, so when he does get it right he gets LOTS of verbal praise and (his favorite) a little wither scratch.

Years ago someone told me “remember, it takes 2 to pull.” I still have to remind myself of that every now and then. I never used anything more than a French link egg butt snaffle on him. I also always carry a dressage whip. We started out doing a lot of just walk work - transitions: rein backs; halt from the seat only or a verbal cue but, no pressure on the bit; lots of series of ground poles, eventually raised 6 inches off the ground; circle of all sizes and spirals in and out; shoulder fore and shoulder-in; leg yield. All at the walk for maybe a month or more. Everything I did was aimed at 2 things: one, get him to shift his weight and energy to his hind end, and two to let him know that I would not allow him to support himself on my hands. He had to carry himself. That is non-negotiable.

Eventually we added rein back and then immediately forward into trot. If I had to, I’d use the whip to let him know that I expected a quick, light, and energetic movement forward. Just be careful not to catch him/her in the mouth when he/she responds or you will punishing him/her. It takes time to build the necessary strength, but once it’s there Fjords have plenty of it.

Keep your sessions short, varied, and as fun as possible. If he/she is getting tired I do one more thing he can do well (often that is just halt square) and then immediately call it a day.

As your mare becomes light at the walk, add in very short trot sets; short enough that she doesn’t have time to get heavy. This may initially be only a half dozen strides or so and then do a downward transition from your seat. Rinse and repeat all the walk work at the trot as she starts to get the idea of energy and lightness. Take whatever time and patience it takes. She WILL get it. Once you get to the canter, it will be pretty easy as she will understand what you want. But again time and patience will pay off.

I now love riding my Fjord and at 24 years old he still loves it too. His ears spring forward when he sees me bring his tack.

Good luck. Fjords are so fun! Feel free to PM if you have questions.

1 Like
#16

What DMK and FjordMom said. I am a breeder and my Fjords compete on recognized eventing and dressage. You have to ride with your seat. Period. You will never win a pulling contest with a Fjord. Bitting up is not the answer, ride back to front.

And congrats to DMK and Xan who just won the USDF All Breed championship at 1st level. He’s a lovely Fjord and I am proud to be his breeder.

3 Likes
#17

Congratulations @DMK!

#18

Thanks! I’m super proud of Xan, since this was our first year playing in the rated sandbox and it was just a few training tests at local shows the year before so we both kind of jumped in the deep end. He has a total fan base when we show, although that won’t surprise anyone who’s ridden a Fjord!

And I double the suggestion of transitions. We might do 100 trot walk or trot halt transitions a week. As it happens, yesterday WAS dedicated to that very topic. The day before was canter work in the carriage (15m circle and he’s rocking it!!!) and a marathon gymnastic, and that tends to make them hot and forward, which has the byproduct of making them devolve to on the forehand. So the very next day was 50 minutes of transitions dedicated to getting him soft, light and back under himself. And when when my focus is riding, I spend the first 20 minutes walking and lateral work while walking followed by 10 minutes trot halt, trot walk, trot half halt. The last 15-20 minutes are for everything else.

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