Bit/Training/Getting horse to relax

I acquired a 15 year old Appaloosa gelding about 7 months ago as sort of a “bonus” horse when I got my Morgan (they both came from a family member who could no longer keep them). He had been ridden western previously (though had been off about a year). I put this in Dressage because that is the direction I’d like to go with him.

Anyway- I didn’t do much with him for a while except pleasure ride every so often because I was conditioning the Morgan and I didn’t have time to work both horses. He’s always been super resistant to the bit- gaping his mouth, raising his head, and just about every other evasive behavior. He HAS had his teeth floated, saddle fit checked, and he is sound. He does not do it as much when he is lunged with side reins or vienna reins, but he does not really seek out contact. I really think he just has never been asked to. No big deal, we’ll get there eventually. I’m open to the idea that I may be contributing to the problem somehow, and once the weather is a bit nicer I’ll enlist the help of a trainer (no indoor arena where he’s at, and no lights… gets dark pretty early here still)

Until then- all I want to do is get him a bit more in shape, moving forward without fussing. He’s quite fat! I want him to enjoy work- at least a little. He always seems quite happy to be saddled and bridled (seriously- after two months off he majorly perked up when I bridled him the other day), until the bit goes in his mouth.

After talking to a trainer, I switched his bit from a plain D-ring snaffle to a D-ring mullen mouth. We thought since he was used to a Western curb, perhaps he didn’t like the nutcracker effect of a snaffle. It seemed to help a little, but he still gapes his mouth/throws his head (even with little to no contact-- I’m not asking him to do anything other than walk and trot on a loose rein). When I started riding him again, he would pull quite a bit, especially when I’d ask him to halt (which, by the way, I do ask for with seat first, and very little rein pressure). When halted, he continues to pull. I just hold until he relaxes, then praise him once he does. We work a lot on nice, quiet transitions-halt-walk, walk-trot, etc.

I tried him in a loose-ring Waterford yesterday to see what he’d do. Really it’s too soon to tell because we’ve only had one ride in it. He pulled a little less, but still gapes his mouth, etc. He’s also tense and tends to pins his ears. I will reiterate: he is out of shape, all we are doing is a lot of walking and some trotting on a fairly loose rein. I expect him to need to keep his head up for balance and I don’t mind right now. Our goal is to relax, and move forward without fussing at the bit. I figure the rest will all come later.

I’d love suggestions. If the waterford doesn’t make a difference I was thinking of trying something like a Myler that offers tongue relief. Or, even going bitless for a little while and see how his attitude is then. He really is a good boy and tries - he’s very attentive when doing ground work/lunging… the problems start when the reins are touched. I do have pretty quiet hands so I’d like to think that’s not the problem- we’ll see what the trainer thinks in the near future.

I second your guess on tongue relief. The Mylers are great and you can rent them first. Some horses find the regular Myler too thin but they now make a 14mm mouthpiece if your horse likes thicker. Otherwise the Sprenger Dynamic or Sprenger Duo may be another good try. It’s so frustrating finding the right bit!

You could also try moving the mouth piece up or down a hole to see if it would change his reaction. I have seen some western ridden horses that have a snaffle bit very low in the mouth.

Another thought, when were his teeth last looked at? He may have some sharp points that are a problem when even a small amount of pressure is applied to the bit.

Have you tried riding him in just a halter?

Sounds to me like this horse was used to a strong bit, and now that he is in a mild bit, has taken to the habit of pulling the reins from your hands. I don’t really care for horses that do that, it’s very annoying.

Make sure you have your hands higher than his mouth, and for a horse that resists contact, you have to KEEP the contact. Steady contact with the mouth (not pulling) teaches the horse to accept the contact. Your hands follow the mouth downward when he accepts, and maybe a small pat on the neck when he accepts. This horse knows that if he sticks his head way up high, he can avoid contact. Hence, you are rewarding the horse by letting him do so (pressure goes away when head goes up).

Someone here must have the links to the George Morris clinics and the horse that was evasive to contact. He does the right thing, his hand follows the horses head up and the contact remains consistent.

Keep your contact and leg on. Especially if he isn’t doing it with side reins, I suspect he is a smart appy (they are very clever!) and he is trying to fool you!
I know a lot of people are scared of posting videos on coth, but maybe post a video of what he is doing so we can see (or you can PM it to me).

got any videos of you riding him,

I just rode with a Centered Riding clinician this weekend on my mare, who has been to hell and back in her training. She’s been getting better about contact, even seeking it and stretching down to the bit. However, she gets nervous to the point of breakdowns and this manifests mainly in crazy bit chomping and gaping her mouth. The clinician moved her bit down a hole to where there was no longer a wrinkle at all in the corner of her mouth. Silly Arab was happy and very willing to stretch into contact, with no sign of chomping.

The clinician explained that, by being high enough to form a wrinkle in the corner of the horse’s mouth, the bit is creating a minute amount of pressure even without contact. This is especially concerning to sensitive horses, like my Arab. I believe my trainer’s hypersensitive appaloosa also had the same treatment. I’d play around with this and see what happens.

Also, the clinician recommended hacking out in a halter and leadline-reins if she continued to show anxiety. If the anxiety if caused by the bit, it should stop, and you’ll be able to pinpoint that it is in fact the bit and not some other factor.

[QUOTE=DJohn;8000228]
Sounds to me like this horse was used to a strong bit, and now that he is in a mild bit, has taken to the habit of pulling the reins from your hands. I don’t really care for horses that do that, it’s very annoying.

Make sure you have your hands higher than his mouth, and for a horse that resists contact, you have to KEEP the contact. Steady contact with the mouth (not pulling) teaches the horse to accept the contact. Your hands follow the mouth downward when he accepts, and maybe a small pat on the neck when he accepts. This horse knows that if he sticks his head way up high, he can avoid contact. Hence, you are rewarding the horse by letting him do so (pressure goes away when head goes up).

Someone here must have the links to the George Morris clinics and the horse that was evasive to contact. He does the right thing, his hand follows the horses head up and the contact remains consistent.

Keep your contact and leg on. Especially if he isn’t doing it with side reins, I suspect he is a smart appy (they are very clever!) and he is trying to fool you!
I know a lot of people are scared of posting videos on coth, but maybe post a video of what he is doing so we can see (or you can PM it to me).[/QUOTE]

I am really interested in these videos - having a similar issue with my Paint mare, she accepts contact but then acts like she’s scared of it and tucks downward, putting slack back in the rein. Keeping a steady contact has been trouble. She’s doing a bit better in a french link D ring bit.

My Morgan is having to relearn all about contact and accepting the bit. I’m working with an excellent trainer now; she is teaching me in-hand work with the bridle and dressage whip; I can see a significant difference in just one short session. I’ve also tried different bits on her.

This is probably more of a training issue than a bit type issue. Have you considered working with a good trainer? That might be cheaper than buying a new bit every week :wink:

I’m working through a lot of the same issues with my mare- she tends to be fussy, and she also tends to snatch or root at the bit. I think it’s at least somewhat related to prior bitting issues, because she has a giant gash across her tongue (very old, and healed at this point) from before I got her.

With her, I went milder with the bit. Right now she’s going in a leather loose ring snaffle (which is legal for eventing, but not sure about dressage), and I usually jump her in a Nathe loose ring- she goes similarly in that, and it is dressage legal. I also use a dropped noseband to try to add a little stability- hard to say whether that has helped or not.

The biggest improvements have come from changes in my riding (with the help of a good trainer!)- keeping my contact at the right level, even in both hands, and keeping it the same no matter what she does with her head. In transitions, she is not allowed to move forward to the next step until she is steady in the contact. Within the same gait, if she starts snatching at the bit, she has to go forward. As a side note, we had to establish the “forward” before we could start to address the contact issues. Good luck with him!

Have you had a chiropractor out to check him over - horses with poll or neck problems are often fussy in the mouth as they have a constant headache.

Any horse that pulls back and breaks free needs to be looked at ASAP after the incidence as that joint at the top is susceptible for coming out of alignment.

You could try a sidepull for your reins and just hang a bit in the horses mouth with cheek straps. That way the horse can learn to carry the bit and not worry so much about it. Then gently transition to two sets of reins and then the regular bridle.

I used to ride a little quarter/Arab cross that did the same thing. He didn’t have much training, but some friends of mine owned him and wanted me to work with him. After several bits (including happy mouths, Mullen mouths, etc) I finally but him in a hacks more that he seemed happy in. He started to relax and stretch down, and no longer gaped his mouth. After several months in that, I slowly transitioned him to a d ring Waterford and he continued to stay round and connected in it, but I think the time spent in the hackamore definitely helped!

Just out of curiosity, have you ridden him western (since that’s what he’s used to)? If so, in what kind of bit and does he still have this behavior?