Bitless options

[What.R.U.Doin]

I purchased an off the track standardbred about three weeks ago. He’s been under saddle for three years although it appears he wasn’t ridden for about eighteen months prior to me getting him. When I tried him out he was in a single joint curb with eight inch shanks.

Since, we have tried comfort sniffles, French link, ported mylers, but been happiest in the rope halter or my lariat nose sidepull that’s wrapped in vet wrap.

Unfortunately he’s sensitive skinned and although he’s still learning about flexing from the saddle (he’s very good on the ground) and being softer on the bridle, and I’m not sawing his face off, he’s losing hair on his nose and getting sored.

What options have people used as a sidepull type rig that won’t rub/sore him?

[barnchick277]

I really like this one, use it on all 3 of my horses
https://www.bigdweb.com/product/tory+leather+jump+hackamore.do?sortby=bestSellers&refType=&from=Search&ecList=6&ecCategory=

This design looks interesting too but haven’t tried it yet
https://www.horse.com/item/tory-english-bridle-leather-nose-side-pull/E001199/

[paintedtrails]

I’m hoping to try an Indian Hackamore or Squeeze bosal (like Potato’s) on my guy…
Do you need a sidepull type, or what a bout a simple S-Hack?

[katyb]

I use a rolled nose riding halter. Our off track STB went great in it. You could put a sheepskin cover on the nose.

[What.R.U.Doin]

@barnchick277

I really like this one, use it on all 3 of my horses
https://www.bigdweb.com/product/tory+leather+jump+hackamore.do?sortby=bestSellers&refType=&from=Search&ecList=6&ecCategory=

This design looks interesting too but haven’t tried it yet
https://www.horse.com/item/tory-english-bridle-leather-nose-side-pull/E001199/

I think I like the jumping hackamore better than the sidepull, just because the reins attach a little lower. I’ll have to head up to Equine Affaire this weekend to browse.

[What.R.U.Doin]

@paintedtrails

I’m hoping to try an Indian Hackamore or Squeeze bosal (like Potato’s) on my guy…
Do you need a sidepull type, or what a bout a simple S-Hack?

He does really well with direct reining, so I’m not certain how he would do in the indian basal. I wish someone local bad an s hack to try…I haven’t tried anything with any sort of leverage, plus he doesn’t neck rein yet

[Scribbler]

A sidepull or jumping hackamore will be more stable than the halter which might help with rubs. This is a hard time of year for rubs because the soft old winter hair can be very fragile and until the new summer coat comes in the bare patches don’t fill in.

I would look for a simple noseband style bit less not a leverage mechanical hackamore, bosal, or pulley strap Dr Cook’s.

Keep the noseband relatively snug so it doesn’t slide. This doesn’t make it more severe, just makes it more stable.

[K8ee]

I am considering trying this one with my little mare. She has a soft mouth and a thick tongue and the bits I currently have don’t seem to be comfortable to her. This has a soft noseband and less leverage than others. And not expensive.

https://www.amazon.com/Zilco-Bitless-Attachments-Flower-Hackamore/dp/B00JBC6PJS

[Bogie]

@K8ee

I am considering trying this one with my little mare. She has a soft mouth and a thick tongue and the bits I currently have don’t seem to be comfortable to her. This has a soft noseband and less leverage than others. And not expensive.

https://www.amazon.com/Zilco-Bitless-Attachments-Flower-Hackamore/dp/B00JBC6PJS

I use one similar to this.

[shayaalliard]

I use a beta sidepull from two horse tack- it’s stabilized to not shift and no squeezing- my mare dislikes the dr cook and the indian hacks because they don;t release fully.
http://www.twohorsetack.com/c-123-sidepulls.aspx

[chicamux]

OK, I’m going to bring up a couple of things that no one else has mentioned. Please don’t take my comments as mean or discouraging. I just want to relate my own experiences with bitless riding. I have ridden numerous horse’s of my own with hackamores and sidepulls in addition to bits. I like trail riding bitless if possible and have done numerous endurance and CTRs bitless. HOWEVER, a bitless bridle, especially those without a curb chain can also allow a horse to bolt out of control or lean and pull you along like a water skier. These take training! of horse and rider.

You know the saying that the problem is between the reins and the saddle? This is so true.Always consider if you the rider is the cause, then consider equipment. I suggest you learn how to do a true one-rein stop and teach it to your horse. Practice it, over and over, at all gaits. This is important to your safety and your horse’s safety as they can just pull right thru a side-pull, jumping hackamore, cross-under bitless without the needed training. Been there, done that!

I have successfully competed in mechanical hackamores. I originally started with a Little S hackamore but switched to a well designed “English” hackamore. The little S hackamore chain sits too high on the jaw bones while the english hackamore sits lower and the curb chain can hang just above the horse’s chin in the “curb chain groove”. I found my horse’s were more responsive and settled in the english hackamore and I can direct rein them well and do a one rein stop easily. I teach my horse’s a one rein stop then teach them to listen to a “suggestion” of the ORS. If they start to lean or get strong I just do a beginning of the ORS, just a little bend to the side and they have learned to lighten up and I will give a quick release.

There are sooo many bit designs out there. My preference is for the Myler line of bits. I have had a couple of horses that seemed to despise bits. I just hadn’t found the bits that were right for their mouths and had to also improve my own riding. STB’s are trained to lean and pull into their bits. I rode an off track STB when I was taking lessons as a teen and had to learn that I couldn’t hang on her mouth. I do like Myler Kimberwickes and many horses respond nicely and in a different way to a smooth wide flat curb chain. This type of bit may be just the thing for a horse that was trained to lean into a snaffle.

Just suggesting that you be sure about having training and control in place before heading out with extremely mild equipment. You do want to have the tools in place to stop a bolting/runaway horse, just in case.

[Bogie]

@chicamux

OK, I’m going to bring up a couple of things that no one else has mentioned. Please don’t take my comments as mean or discouraging. I just want to relate my own experiences with bitless riding. I have ridden numerous horse’s of my own with hackamores and sidepulls in addition to bits. I like trail riding bitless if possible and have done numerous endurance and CTRs bitless. HOWEVER, a bitless bridle, especially those without a curb chain can also allow a horse to bolt out of control or lean and pull you along like a water skier. These take training! of horse and rider.

You know the saying that the problem is between the reins and the saddle? This is so true.Always consider if you the rider is the cause, then consider equipment. I suggest you learn how to do a true one-rein stop and teach it to your horse. Practice it, over and over, at all gaits. This is important to your safety and your horse’s safety as they can just pull right thru a side-pull, jumping hackamore, cross-under bitless without the needed training. Been there, done that!

Just suggesting that you be sure about having training and control in place before heading out with extremely mild equipment. You do want to have the tools in place to stop a bolting/runaway horse, just in case.

Very good advice. In addition to the one-rein stop, I always teach my horses a verbal “slow down” cue. It’s a trilling sound. Even out in the hunt field, if they hear that sound it will cause them to check and listen to me. The other thing I use is a neck strap. My horses all learn to stop from the pressure of the strap. I like to find ways that add a level of control that do not involve the horse’s mouth. It’s probably because they get very keen out hunting and I don’t want to be in their face all the time.

[Lisa_Preston]

You can make one for about ten bucks, sidepull, Indian, cross-jaw, and pad it to your heart’s and his nose’s delight with fleece or sheepskin halter tube, and/or a few wraps of that rubber mesh cupboard liner. Easy peasy.

[Guilherme]

@chicamux

OK, I’m going to bring up a couple of things that no one else has mentioned. Please don’t take my comments as mean or discouraging. I just want to relate my own experiences with bitless riding. I have ridden numerous horse’s of my own with hackamores and sidepulls in addition to bits. I like trail riding bitless if possible and have done numerous endurance and CTRs bitless. HOWEVER, a bitless bridle, especially those without a curb chain can also allow a horse to bolt out of control or lean and pull you along like a water skier. These take training! of horse and rider.

You know the saying that the problem is between the reins and the saddle? This is so true.Always consider if you the rider is the cause, then consider equipment. I suggest you learn how to do a true one-rein stop and teach it to your horse. Practice it, over and over, at all gaits. This is important to your safety and your horse’s safety as they can just pull right thru a side-pull, jumping hackamore, cross-under bitless without the needed training. Been there, done that!

I have successfully competed in mechanical hackamores. I originally started with a Little S hackamore but switched to a well designed “English” hackamore. The little S hackamore chain sits too high on the jaw bones while the english hackamore sits lower and the curb chain can hang just above the horse’s chin in the “curb chain groove”. I found my horse’s were more responsive and settled in the english hackamore and I can direct rein them well and do a one rein stop easily. I teach my horse’s a one rein stop then teach them to listen to a “suggestion” of the ORS. If they start to lean or get strong I just do a beginning of the ORS, just a little bend to the side and they have learned to lighten up and I will give a quick release.

There are sooo many bit designs out there. My preference is for the Myler line of bits. I have had a couple of horses that seemed to despise bits. I just hadn’t found the bits that were right for their mouths and had to also improve my own riding. STB’s are trained to lean and pull into their bits. I rode an off track STB when I was taking lessons as a teen and had to learn that I couldn’t hang on her mouth. I do like Myler Kimberwickes and many horses respond nicely and in a different way to a smooth wide flat curb chain. This type of bit may be just the thing for a horse that was trained to lean into a snaffle.

Just suggesting that you be sure about having training and control in place before heading out with extremely mild equipment. You do want to have the tools in place to stop a bolting/runaway horse, just in case.

Very well said. Leather and iron are there to facilitate communication, not act as “disk brakes.” Sometimes you need to be able to whisper with your hands but sometimes you have to have a “parade ground voice.” One device will not fit all.

In the mid-90s our local dressage club put on a symposium by Hilda Gurney, an Olympic Bronze Medalist ('76, Dressage, Montreal). A very nice and very knowledgeable lady. She noted that she had 50+ bits on her bit wall and would sometimes use three different ones in a training session, based upon how the HORSE was responding to HER. That’s probably overkill for an amateur rider, but the thought that what we do should be driven by how the horse is responding is not. And that we are willing to change what we do to get better response, even within the same session, is not.

IMO the OP needs to have somebody video her using standard equipment (multiple bits if necessary) and then see what the horse-rider combination is ACTUALLY doing vice what they THINK it is doing. Any rider with reasonable experience knows that the feel from the saddle can be deceiving and a good set of eyes on the ground can help understand reality vice perception of reality. The video camera is excellent for this but not for the faint of heart. The lens doesn’t lie. It doesn’t care how much money you have or who your trainer is or what band of saddle you ride or anything else.

G.

[Frog_Pond]

I have an OTSTB who was green broke to saddle when I got him in his early 20’s. He goes best in a Dr. Cook’s made of biothane, and that nose strap does not bother his bony face + thin skin. When I use the sidepull I got from Linda Tellington-Jones’ website (Lindell, I think it’s called?) I use a cheapo faux fleece halter-noseband cover to protect his skin from the rolled leather, almost-bosal style noseband. He only direct reins.

When bitted, he has a few responses that I find counterproductive to riding & safety. He open-mouth chewed and slobbered with the Happy Mouth d-ring peppermint flavored thing I test-rode him in. He leans hard and starts to hustle and hurry in the few other snaffles I tried. He’s very talented at hitting his race pace with his chin on his chest and – if I hold him up – about 600 of his 1100 lbs. leaning on the bit. The few Myler curbs I’ve tried, he gets panicky and does the same thing but gets even further behind the bit, or, he sticks his nose out and falls apart. At speed.

I ride him bitless carefully. I’m definitely aware my brakes are . . . minimal. But, he’s at least thinking and relaxed and I can steer. And really, I’ve had a lot of good years – if this is how I go, so be it. :lol:

[What.R.U.Doin]

Very good points brought up.

About having control before heading out with mild equipment, no worries. We can “suggest” a one rein stop and rebalance. Or just do a ORS.

RE: video, not relying on iron or leverage etc…

I asked for recommendations on a sidewalk type rig that would be less likely to rub. The sidepull I was using had a lariat nose and rubbed. We are slowly working out training issues.

I agree…Video doesn’t lie. But in this case, it’s the horse has never been taught to be soft…He raced and grabbed the bit and braced against it.

The prior owner only did nose to tail trail rides and he wasn’t asked to do anything but a shuffling walk.

We are doing arena work and basic dressage work in walk in the arena about twice a week. Two to three times a week we are walking trails.

while he still rides fine but less, I’ve found that a plain single jointed d ring snaffle is acceptable to him, and his chewing lessens and his mouth stills when his brain and body are engaged. So we are swapping between bitless and bitted as situations allow.

[Guilherme]

Snipped for brevity.

RE: video, not relying on iron or leverage etc…

I asked for recommendations on a sidewalk type rig that would be less likely to rub. The sidepull I was using had a lariat nose and rubbed. We are slowly working out training issues.

I agree…Video doesn’t lie. But in this case, it’s the horse has never been taught to be soft…He raced and grabbed the bit and braced against it.

You may be absolutely right. But, again, your perception of reality could also be wrong. The video camera will give you a definitive answer. And I would think that you’d prefer that definitive answer to one that might be less so.

[/QUOTE]

[What.R.U.Doin]

Thanks everyone for the responses.

My reason for the post was to get suggestions of a sidepull type bridle that was less likely to rub my geldings sensitive face.

I was not asking for training advice, and I’m not sure where the thought came from that I was asking for some suggestions of stronger equipment for more control.

I received the answers I needed and we are currently working well in either a snaffle or a borrowed jumping hackamore, depending on the day and how he is responding.

Thanks for the input.

[quietann]

@chicamux

…

You know the saying that the problem is between the reins and the saddle? This is so true.Always consider if you the rider is the cause, then consider equipment. I suggest you learn how to do a true one-rein stop and teach it to your horse. Practice it, over and over, at all gaits. This is important to your safety and your horse’s safety as they can just pull right thru a side-pull, jumping hackamore, cross-under bitless without the needed training. Been there, done that!

I have successfully competed in mechanical hackamores. I originally started with a Little S hackamore but switched to a well designed “English” hackamore. The little S hackamore chain sits too high on the jaw bones while the english hackamore sits lower and the curb chain can hang just above the horse’s chin in the “curb chain groove”. I found my horse’s were more responsive and settled in the english hackamore and I can direct rein them well and do a one rein stop easily. I teach my horse’s a one rein stop then teach them to listen to a “suggestion” of the ORS. If they start to lean or get strong I just do a beginning of the ORS, just a little bend to the side and they have learned to lighten up and I will give a quick release.

Just suggesting that you be sure about having training and control in place before heading out with extremely mild equipment. You do want to have the tools in place to stop a bolting/runaway horse, just in case.

Just curious which “English” hackamore you are using as I am having similar issues with the Little S – the curb chain is quite high. And am seeing, yes, more one-rein stops practice in our future, though the mare knows “easy easy” as a “slow down” cue.