Bits: Double-jointed is harsher than a port?

I have always used a KK ultra double-jointed snaffle, thinking it was the mildest bit. But I just read about Myler bits and they suggest that a somewhat trained horse needs tongue relief – that which is supplied by a small port and not by a double-jointed bit that drapes on the tongue.

The Myler literature says a doublejointed bit is good for green horses because it’s action on the tongue is precise, but once a horse is trained a bit, they should be using a small ported bit so that the horse can use it’s tongue. Having pressure on the tongue prevents the horse from swallowing easily and they don’t need that once they are a little responsive to rein aids.

The tradeoff is there is less control using a bit with less tongue pressure – thus if you need some control for a trained horse, you choose a bit with a higher port or one that puts more pressure on bars.

I think I got that right… but I didn’t realize it. I thought ports were harsher and needed an advanced horse and really quiet hands…

Are you taking about snaffles with rings or jointed bits with leverage, like a Tom thumb bit, like a curb with a linked mouthpiece?

These were in use when I was a kid decades ago but I thought everyone had agreed they were harsh.

I would usually expect to see a snaffle on a young horse.

@Scribbler

The OP is talking about this style:

https://www.doversaddlery.com/kk-ultra-snsogn-loose-rng-16mm/p/X1-010040/&utm_campaign=NB_PLA_Retail_Mid-Atlantic_GOOG/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIm6uXn_vD2wIVwl6GCh2x7w_PEAQYBSABEgLy0_D_BwE

And I’m assuming (hopefully not incorrectly) that she is comparing it to other snaffle-style bits, since Myler makes a large variety of ported snaffles.

“Harsh” is a loaded “mush” word. It really doesn’t give us any useful information but does give us emotional feelings.

Myler makes a good product but so does KK. I’ve used both. I even used both of what is being discussed.* IMO they have different levels of “pressure” that they can exert and the pressure is not exactly the same or in the exact, same way. Myler’s position has some validity and with some horses will be completely correct. But they have stated A truth, not a Law of the Universe.

I highly recommend William Langdon’s book Bits and Bitting Manual. He takes the time to explain each type of bit and how it works in the mouth. He has a companion book, Training With Bits that is also good. Here is a link to the first one https://www.amazon.com/Bits-Bitting-Manual-William-Langdon/dp/1883714036

Bits are like saddles. You have to have use what fits the physical dimensions of the mouth AND the temperament of the horse.

Or, to quote the Immortal John Madden, “One Size Does Not Fit All.” :slight_smile:

G.

*A mouthpiece can be either single, double, or multi-jointed. Or solid. The more joints the more “conforming” it will be to mouth and, in theory, the less powerful it might be. But the true power of ANY bit lies in the hands that are manipulating it. If the rider is “ham fisted” they can beat up a mouth with foam wrapped mullen mouth.

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IME most horses have distinct preferences. My current one goes in a single jointed D on the flat. He apparently finds anything with even a slightly thicker center lozenge terribly uncomfortable. A slightly ported Myler D with the hooks made him almost unrideable. So I would let the horse tell you what it prefers.

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My two horse’s ride in solid mouthed shanked bits with curb chains. My young horse’s ride in a snaffle for first 60 days. Then are put in a solid mouthed shanked bit with curb chain.

Both horse’s prefer solid mouthed bits over a snaffle. Gelding is 5 years old stud is 6 years old both ride in curb bits.

Tom thumb bits are garbage ,would never put one in a horse’s mouth.

Ah so they do. Learned something! I googled and saw that there is a port mouthed snaffle. This would seem to be an entirely Western thing. I have never seen a port mouthed snaffle connected to English riding only links and Mullen (straight or slightly curved).

I wonder why? Do the Western snaffles transfer better to riding on a draped rein and the English snaffles for clear contact?

There are a number of Myler bits designed for English riding that have ports. The idea is, as the OP stated, to provide tongue relief. I’ve actually just watched last night the videos of Dale Myler discussing bit resistance and different pressure points that various bits create. It was very interesting.

The Mylers do come from a Western riding background, but their bits have done well with English riders.

This is the first of the bitting videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqGXCWVSS0Y

I’ll probably get flamed for this but coming from a purely western/bridle horse background the “tongue relief” stuff is a marketing gimmick, in my opinion.

Not ALL horses prefer or have a thick enough tongue to require a lot tongue relief especially the amount Myler allows for.

As far as true bridle horses, you don’t want a bit with tongue relief as it makes it harder for the horse to pick up and feel.
All the horse has to do is drop the bit briefly letting the headstall hold it in place in order for the horse to swallow. If the horse isn’t swallowing it’s pretty evident by clear thick drool rather than a bit of foamy lipstick from the horse working and feeling the bit.
I’m pretty sure it’s not that difficult for a horse to swallow with a bit in, specifically one with little to no tongue relief and with a spade and braces.
Something to consider before running out and buying a pile of mylers…

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I bought a few myler bits to try horse’s hated them. Not a myler bit fan plenty of other bits, on the market that work just fine.

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Try looking at the rules, and associated Annexes/Guidelines, for Dressage and Eventing Dressage. Plenty of ported snaffles in there. There are even rules about how high the port can be.

https://www.picovs.ca/product/myler-dee-ring-mb04/

This is the bit that my hunter goes in and he loves it. He’s got a small muzzle and a thick tongue, if you lift his lips you can see that his tongue is always squishing out between his teeth. Almost every other bit (single joint, mullen mouth, double joint, happy mouth, etc) results in him opening his mouth as soon as you touch the reins, with this bit he stays soft and accepts the contact.

My jumper who has a “normal” mouth goes the same in every single bit we’ve ever tried on him.

Over the years I’ve seen both port bits and French link bits that have caused sores on the bars. The issue is whether the port bend is smooth or has edges and where those edges lie in the mouth. The same goes for double jointed bits. If those links lie on the bars it can cause unpredictable pressure points which over time can become sores. The bit has to be size appropriate to the mouth’s conformation.

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I think Myler is trying to gain market share on Herm Sprenger, and that’s about it. The KK ultra provides some tongue relief due to the positioning of the links on middle piece and the shape of that piece. Also, the horse only needs tongue relief in the KK if the rider has harsh hands or pulls on the horse’s face. Myler’s ported snaffle will rest more on the bars, causing soring there if the rider has harsh hands or pulls on the bit.

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Hi all –

I thought ported bits worked by hitting the palate (harsh) and needed very skilled hands, whereas a double-jointed snaffles were more like a “rope” on the tongue (soft), and were the best for the average recreational rider.

Since snaffles are used in two-handed riding, with contact, it did seem logical that there might be constant tongue pressure and maybe it was annoying to the horse. I can see where it might not make a difference in western riding with a draped rein. (Actually, with a draped rein, I think you would need a harsher bit, so it took less rein to give an aid.)

I am sure the horses can still swallow, or else, as noted, they would be drooling… but I take a lot of horse photos and there are a lot of gape mouth shots, even when I thought I was watching a nice ride.

All my questions have arisen because I am trying out western riding, and everyone seems to have a shanked bit of some sort. My new ranch horse is pretty broke. He had been ridden in a very high port, long shanked bit, but I have him in a KK snaffle and he seems to be doing fine, but maybe he would like a bit with a port even more.

I am going to give a Myler bit with a port a try just to see if I notice a difference. Nothing like a new horse and new riding style to make you re-look at everything!

PS: I will check out the bitting book, too!

Indeed!!!

Military riding is really a middle ground between the vaquero work of the Western rider and the foxhunting of the English rider. It is very practical but has an element of “showmanship” about it as part of the idea of “military theater.”

You can buy the manuals and training films (the latter on DVD or VHS) used at Ft. Riley (home of the Cavalry School) from the Suttler’s Store at the U.S. Cavalry Association. It was a riding style that produce Olympic quality riders in the '30s and some interesting leaders of the era as well. :slight_smile:

G.

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Hi @Guilherme!

(I bought a cavalry blanket from another post of yours – not sure it will make it to the horse, I really like it as couch throw!)

Did the cavalry neck-rein using a snaffle then? That would be my guess.

I don’t believe I have the skilled hands that a bridle horse/vaquero might require, but since my guy is pretty broke, and the Myler literature suggests that a broke horse doesn’t need the tongue pressure, my trial is only to give him tongue relief. If he/we go better, that is a plus!

He is 12 yo former ranch horse. He has a scar on his tongue that goes halfway through, I was thinking he might like tongue relief for that reason, too. I didn’t realize the KK snaffle was primarily tongue pressure – I assumed it primarily pulled on the corner of their mouths/bars before it pushed on the tongue.

All so interesting.

I am a believer in trying what works for your horse.

One of mine has a fussy mouth and goes great in a Myler with a low port, hooks and no chain for jumping.

but for dressage, I use HS Novocontacts usually because the horses like them. One mare uses the double jointed, the gelding the single joint.

i have a KK ultra and one that is more curvy (the RS Dynamic). I just let the horses pick.

my QH mare is trained in Western Pleasure. I have had to teach her to accept contact. She functions mostly off the seat and leg so the bit is largely irrelevant. I think most bridle horses are the same…you just have to be comfy with letting go if you have a curb on one.

I’ve seen injuries like that from snaffle bits and curb bits. We had a Spotted Saddle Horse that could not be ridden in a bit of any kind. When we got him he had been ridden in Walker bit with 10" shanks and a thin, twisted wire mouthpiece. His mouth was mass of sores and some scar tissue had likely developed. No matter what we did the present tiny pain quickly reminded him of the massive pain of his past and he became dangerous. So we experimented and found we went really well in an English hackemore. Problem solved!!!

G.

A word of caution-the Myler descriptions of their various bits’ actions are not always correct. It’s a lot of marketing “fluff”, gimmicks, as Aces said. That being said, I do have a few Mylers and currently ride my mare in an O ring with the typical Myler tongue relief mouthpiece. I’m not sure which exact one, they all vary a little.

I don’t have less control in the Myler, so that is absolute BS. I think it all comes down to the conformation of the horse’s mouth, its preference (some hate tongue pressure, some prefer a Mullen, some prefer a bit with leverage at some point), and training.