I have a gelding in a HS eggbutt with a lozenge. He’s giving me some indicators he isn’t happy with the bit. He will gape and fuss when the bridle first goes on, and he also tries to suck the mouthpiece way up his mouth by folding his tongue. Once I pick up the contact he is all business and schools very nicely. Once I put him on a loose rein he is back to fussing. For a long time I thought maybe his fussiness with bits was a green/acceptance of the bit issue, but my coach pointed out he is not green anymore … Time flies! It feels like just yesterday he was five.
I tried him in a Happy Mouth mullen thinking maybe he didn’t like the moving parts, but he was much worse and seemed like he was trying to spit the bit out the entire time. In loose rings he would jingle-jingle-jingle, I think he was moving the bit up and down in his mouth. I tried a single jointed baucher for the stability and he was better, but I stopped using it because I couldn’t find one with a lozenge and I thought the lozenge might be more comfortable.
He’s the type that would be happy schooling in a halter… if only it was legal!
Are there other bits I should try? I asked his dentist if she had bit recommendations and she observed he has a very flat palate and thick tongue, and to try something that keeps pressure from his bars and tongue… but it has to be dressage legal because we show.
Fager bits has quite a few interesting bits for horses with mouth problems. They have several models that have titanium mouthpieces, as well as a table to show if the bit you want is legal for showing.
I have had excellent results with regular titanium coated bits (regular as in they are normal snaffles, kimberwicks and pelhams) with fussy horses, but the Fager bits seem to work even better. They may look a little odd, but the positive results are worth it to me.
If you decide to go the Fager route I recommend communicating with them about your horse’s problems with the bit. I for one “guestimated” wrong, but since I only ride school horses I am sure I will eventually run into a horse that wants one of the bits that the other horses I ride reject. For instance, I invested in several of the Fager “tongue relief bits”. Guess what, the horses I ride right now decided that they preferred the “bar relief bits” I got.
The Fager bits are sort of expensive, but not as expensive as the HS or NS bits. The Fager bit people do not allow returns so ask questions first before you decide which bit to get your horse and be SURE to measure your horse’s mouth.
An elderly badly conformed QH I ride reacted to his double bridle Fager bits that I got him without any problems, even though my riding teacher & I think his mouth had been badly abused with a Western curb bit. He is more cheerful with the Fager “bar relief” double bridle bits, he argues with me less in the Fager bits, and his mouth problems have improved over what they were when I tried stainless steel double bridle bits on him.
This same horse did not like the Fager “tongue relief” bits (snaffles) and he was better with the Fager “bar relief” snaffles, and once I found his favorite “bar relief” Fager snaffle, the Bianca double jointed snaffle with a titanium roller in the middle, this iron mouthed resistant horse has turned into a pretty neat riding horse. He no longer fears the bit, is light in the bridle, and no longer gapes unless my hands get really hard (drat you horse, I said STOP! as we head toward the gate.) He also does not hold grudges against these bits like he would with stainless steel bits he did not like.
And the price of the Fager bits on their site includes postage, so the price you see is what you pay without any extra charges.
When my young, but no longer able to be considered green, gelding went through a fussy mouth phase last year we had the vet out and he had some hooks developing that weren’t apparent in the previous (un-sedated) tooth check. You said you asked your vet, but if you haven’t done a sedated dental exam yet, it might be worth it to check the box since this is a new behavior.
We have had the best results with the Myler comfort snaffle (no port) and the JP Korsteel eggbutt snaffle. Both have thinner mouthpieces and a curve to the bit arms. Both are dressage legal.
I agree with MissAriel there - Also loving the Myler comfort snaffle. I have two that get a bit silly in anything but the Myler, which seems to fit both well and is a lot quieter in their mouth.
After you’ve checked teeth / health - I’d recommend borrowing a Myler snaffle.
I had a mare with a small mouth and thick tongue, and she went MUCH better in a loosering (moved in her mouth more) thin (14mm) HS training bit (two joints). It was thin enough that she didn’t mind it much in her mouth. We went through bunches of bits before she went best in this one.
No hooks or dental issues. I mentioned in my OP the dentist has been involved.
I don’t think it is a teeth issue. I think he doesn’t like bits in his mouth. I’m looking at Fagers now. Already tried loose ring HS, mentioned in OP.
I don’t need more bit, so Im running into a wall here since the quiz for Faber says my horse could benefit from more bit in his mouth. He’s very soft and sensitive in the bridle and an honest worker. I don’t have issues with controlling him. I could ride him in a halter. He doesn’t root or pull on the bit and he isn’t dead to the bit either.
The Novocontact mentions its stronger than normal HS…?
What signs do people look for to know what kind of mouth piece to pick?
3 horses, many bits trialed over the years, all ended up in 3 different Neue Schule (for now). I would also pair this with bridle fit, saddle fit- its all part of it. If there is something uncomfortable about their tack fit, it may show up as being fussy. But, back to bits…
17 yr old half arab - he has a busy mouth, and has been ridden in some pretty big, harsh bits in his main ring days. When I picked him up and turned him into a dressage princess, we tried a lot of different bits from myler, plain old korsteel, sprenger, and started w/ Neue Schule - first the tranz angled eggbutt, then a verbindend (because I had it), and finally I sprung to try the turtle top when they came out with a solid cheek piece and trial-able. Turtle top eggbutt was by far the winner. Almost instantly he was more settled, reaching and stretching to contact. That one was his game changer by a long shot. His best combination is the turtle top and kavalkade ivana bridle, no flash.
11 yr old half arab - tried the same bits as above, but his favorite is the thin verbindend loose ring, 12 mm from dressage extensions. Paired on a schockemohle equitus alpha bridle (the kavalkade didn’t fit quite right, he’s a touch too petite for the cob size), but he could probably go in a traditional bridle just fine- I just haven’t gotten around to trying it again, but for a long time he was in a traditional bridle.
12 yr old standardbred - he’s in the tranz angled eggbutt. He wasn’t a fan of the turtle top, but okayish in verbindend. For a long time he was ridden and schooled in a micklem but as that wore out I tried other bridles (didnt like the kavalkade, still didnt like a traditional bridle), and ended up being very settled and happy in a collegiate comfitec .He is basically retired so I havent had to worry about finding something legal to show in, so never checked on this particular bridle.
So all that to say - they are individuals, you can trial bits now thankfully and it may take some time to figure it out for them, but worth it! You may want to try the turtle top, based on your description. Dressage extensions has a great trial program.
I did the bit quiz on the Fager site and picked the wrong type of bit. I think part of the problem is because of the limits of translating from one language to another.
I have done e-mail with Fager and did get some advice about Weymouth width. Since I have MS and my hands can be unstable I elected to ignore the advice she gave me about the width of the Weymouth not being as important as with the snaffles. Well, this company does a lot of research but I did not think that they used people with MS, we are not that common in the upper reaches of competitive dressage. When I think my family has enough extra money to make it through the COVID-19 pandemic I WILL be ordering a 120mm Mullen mouth Weymouth for the Arab I hope to ride in the future, and the appropriate sized bradoon to go with it (125mm) based on measuring this horse’s mouth. Fortunately the Fager people will make bits in other sizes than the ones they sell now, but I will have to wait 6 weeks for the bits to be made.
From my limited experience with the Fager bits (2 horses in their 20s), I get the impression from the older horses that they GREATLY prefer the Fager “bar relief” bits. In many ways this makes sense to me, these horses are elderly, they had been through sub-par training (otherwise why would they improve under ME, crippled with MS, bad balance, hand tremor, and trouble coordinating my aids.) When I thought about it though it made sense, how many horses get their bars bruised &/or end up with bony growths on their bars from people desperately trying to keep control (and I am not talking about you OP, I was a rider who did that myself long ago.)
I also noticed that these horses greatly prefer the Fager double-jointed bits to the regular stainless steel and the titanium coated double-jointed bits. The Fager people made the center lozenge/dog bone/plate less wide across the mouth of the horse which does not seem to irritate the horse’s bars as much. The elderly mare I ride used to let me use double jointed bits without any problems, my MS got worse and she started flinging her head. However she does not do this in the Fager double jointed bar-relief snaffles. This mare LOVES contact (her owner thinks it is because the mare then knows what the rider will do) so I really listen to her when she starts her head flinging–the message is that she does not trust MY hands with THAT bit, so I listen to her and go back to the desperate search for that illusive perfect bit for my hands and her mouth.
So the horses I ride currently did NOT like the Fager tongue relief bits (I had to use really light contact), and they do NOT like the Fager bits that “lock up” when both reins are used, which I had tried in search of a gentler snaffle (contact was fine but they fussed with their tongues even while keeping relatively decent but rather light contact.) I tried a tongue relief “lock up” snaffle (you’d think it was specifically made to torture those poor horses) and they also did.not.like. the “bar relief” lock up snaffle (both horses spent the entire ride pushing up against the central lozenge.) Don’t get me wrong, I had absolutely no problems controlling these horses in these bits, it is just that they did so much better in the Fager bits they liked, the bar-relief snaffles both single and double jointed with non-locking center joints.
The Fager bits are also lighter in weight, and their mouthpieces are flattened a little bit, and the horses seem to approve of this.
The difference the Fager bits made with the elderly QH gelding I ride is nothing short of amazing, and I had been using the gentlest bit out there–the Wellep snaffles, single & double jointed and the titanium coated Mullen mouth and double jointed lozenge bits. The Fager Bianca is the only bit out of the 8-10 I’ve tried on this horse that he’s gone better in than with the Wellep double jointed snaffle. His mouth became LIGHT, responsive, he now yields some with his jaw (as opposed to never yielding his jaw) and he is starting to THINK rather than blindly and compulsively opposing everything I do with him. The Fager bits helped turn this horse from a compulsive a**-h*** to a much more reasonable horse who now obeys even my lightest hand aids, when he feels like it. When he does not feel like it I have fewer problems controlling him in the Fager bits.
From the horses’ reactions to the titanium/titanium coated bits has led me to believe that possibly quite a few horses are allergic to something in the stainless steel (either the nickel or chromium) possibly leading to inflammation in their mouths, at least the horses act like their mouths are a whole lot less sensitive in the titanium bits. Since my hands are not perfect I really appreciate the greater comfort that the titanium bits give the horses.
I have not tried the Fager sweet iron bits, though some of them do look interesting.
Good luck. I think that horses take their bits really PERSONALLY, sort of like how we humans consider fine jewelry. What one horse likes the next horse may hate, and for some horses no bit is perfect enough for their delicate mouths.
Ditto this. I used a single jointed eggbutt on my mare and it really improved her trust in the contact. Then I went to a Korsteel curved mouth eggbutt (bonus it’s like $30!) FWIW, I tried the Novocontact double jointed on my mare and it was awful. Many horses seem to prefer single-jointed bits.
I had a mare that I could not figure out the cause of her fussiness. I of course considered myself as the cause first but my instructor said no. The fussiness turned into super tension. What I found was that she would roll the bit back to her teeth with her tongue then would pinch her fat inner cheeks as she chewed/gnawed the bit. She has a lot of redundant tissue in her mouth and she also has a refined “dry” head. Not a good combo.
What I found that works for her is a small diameter arched bar bit. Unfortunately, that bit (a PeeWee) is not show legal. So I have always been on the look out for something she finds acceptable and is legal.
My last try has worked well. It is a NS Turtle Tactio. It is thin over the tongue and it does “lock” with rein pressure so it doesn’t put much pressure on her tongue. She works quite well in it. I have it on a PS of Sweden bridle so no straps over the jaw that may push her flabby cheeks into her teeth. I still work her primarily in the PeeWee (with no cavesson) but can seemlessly transfer her to the TT for clinics or shows.
Here I thought saddles were the only fit headaches. Before I found the PeeWee, I probably spent the equivalent of a saddle on bits:sigh:. Definitely try via rental.
