Bits vs. Bitless while training?

I’m in the process of training my 2-year-old Friesian Cross, and I’ve only ever ridden her in a sidepull. She’s a little dull to commands, especially turns - I’m not exactly sure how she was introduced to the bridle by the people who broke her. I know that her responses will improve as I train her, but I was thinking about adding a full-cheek snaffle to see if that helped her along at all.

Any thoughts on snaffles vs. bitless?

Also, If there are already a million topics on this someone just shove me in the correct direction :wink:

Me? I’d introduce her to a snaffle bridle, but via long-lining rather than riding. And very, very low key-- just give her the basics, focus more on ground handling.
But I wouldn’t be riding a 2y/o draft, who mature more slowly than light horses.

[ETA: I should clarify that I mean riding regularly, in a steady, progressive under-saddle training program. Not trying to say that light/brief riding by a competent rider is going to cause permanent harm.]

Back when I trained my own horses decades ago, I used the bitless I had (English Jumping Cavesson Bridle, side-pull) to teach the horse what I meant with the rein aids. Once they understood the language of my aids I could switch to a bit and add refinements without having the fights and tug-of-wars with the bit.
Today there are better bitless bridles (cross-unders, Light Rider) which should make the teaching of the rein aids even simpler if the trainer has light enough hands that know how to release promptly. I am afraid that just a side-pull with a thicker necked horse can teach the horse to ignore or resist rein aids.

I like full cheek snaffles for training. Just make sure that the horse finds the mouth piece comfortable. Personally I really like the JP bits, or rather I should say the horses I ride seem to prefer them (Arabs, Arab-Welsh). You might also want to add bit loops to stabilize the bit in the horse’s mouth. Avoid tugs of war, give and take will get you there quicker and it helps keep the horse’s mouth from getting “hard.” When riding in the side-pull on your horse you may have gotten into a habit of pulling, trying to get the horse to give, and the horse have gotten into the habit of resisting. (If I am wrong please forgive me.)

Two helpful hints, do not use the rein to turn when the hind leg on that side is pushing (your seat-bone is higher), and alternate the inside rein with the outside leg at the girth. With this timing the horse won’t be able to resist you as easily.

Hungarian, I only ride her once a week for ten minutes or so at a time; given her breed, I know that she won’t be fully mature until she’s about 6. I’d never ride a baby more than that! I definitely like the idea of introducing the bit via long-lining.

Jackie, you gave some great suggestions! I’m experienced enough to know when to release and I’ve got soft hands, so I don’t think I’ve made her resist any worse. I’m definitely not getting into any tugs-of-war with this girl! She just requires a more exaggerated cue than a fully trained horse would, which I suppose is to be expected. I’m just wondering if a bit would maybe help to get the message across a little bit (pun intended :D) more clearly.

What do you guys think about French link snaffles?

Everyone has their own methods - and each horse will require adjustments to that. But this is how I usually handling starting:

First - a set of reins attached to the side rings of a regular ol’ halter. I walk beside the horse and teach how to turn off that side pressure.

Then progress to long lining off the halter.

Then I teach them how to carry a bit - continue long lining off the halter while wearing the bit.

Then I start teaching to give to the bit in hand. Then progress to long lining off the bit.

Then I back them - in a halter with reins.

Then once again - carrying bit, while riding with halter and reins…

Then switch the reins to the bit and ride them in that.

Here is a photo from my current horse’s first ride. Web halter - with reins attached. (in a large field, with a log for a mounting block :wink: )

And I like three piece snaffles - this is the one I use for most younsters.

[QUOTE=Jackie Cochran;7810455]
Back when I trained my own horses decades ago, I used the bitless I had (English Jumping Cavesson Bridle, side-pull) to teach the horse what I meant with the rein aids. Once they understood the language of my aids I could switch to a bit and add refinements without having the fights and tug-of-wars with the bit.
Today there are better bitless bridles (cross-unders, Light Rider) which should make the teaching of the rein aids even simpler if the trainer has light enough hands that know how to release promptly. I am afraid that just a side-pull with a thicker necked horse can teach the horse to ignore or resist rein aids.

I like full cheek snaffles for training. Just make sure that the horse finds the mouth piece comfortable. Personally I really like the JP bits, or rather I should say the horses I ride seem to prefer them (Arabs, Arab-Welsh). You might also want to add bit loops to stabilize the bit in the horse’s mouth. Avoid tugs of war, give and take will get you there quicker and it helps keep the horse’s mouth from getting “hard.” When riding in the side-pull on your horse you may have gotten into a habit of pulling, trying to get the horse to give, and the horse have gotten into the habit of resisting. (If I am wrong please forgive me.)

Two helpful hints, do not use the rein to turn when the hind leg on that side is pushing (your seat-bone is higher), and alternate the inside rein with the outside leg at the girth. With this timing the horse won’t be able to resist you as easily.[/QUOTE]

Great advice!! I lunge and long line extensively when I start horses. They are taught to bend and circle, stop out on the circle and back before I ever mount. Carrying a rider is a big enough chore…I want them to know everything else, first!! And “Whoa” means NOW!!!

I start mine bitless, but I do introduce them to a bit so they become acclimated as well. By that, I mean that I use a headstall and a rubber snaffle and teach them to accept it, and wear the headstall while in their stall for a few minutes at a time. This acclimates them to it, showing it’s not a big deal.
My young horses get tons of groundwork. By the time you start on their back, they already have a whoa and can turn easily on command. So I use a rope halter with reins.
Initial sessions for babies are short, ten to fifteen minutes. It’s kindergarten, really. I start them when they show they are mentally ready, so “baby” could be two, three, four years old.
I like to progress to where they are riding easily and have the basics down pat at walk/trot in a halter before adding the bit. Then, I add it for them to carry while still using the halter. After a session or two, switch to the bit and headstall.
That’s how I like to do it. No drama, no trauma, just relaxed and taking them step by step.

Thanks for the great advice! :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Lady Counselor;7811058]
I start mine bitless, but I do introduce them to a bit so they become acclimated as well. By that, I mean that I use a headstall and a rubber snaffle and teach them to accept it, and wear the headstall while in their stall for a few minutes at a time. This acclimates them to it, showing it’s not a big deal.
My young horses get tons of groundwork. By the time you start on their back, they already have a whoa and can turn easily on command. So I use a rope halter with reins.
Initial sessions for babies are short, ten to fifteen minutes. It’s kindergarten, really. I start them when they show they are mentally ready, so “baby” could be two, three, four years old.
I like to progress to where they are riding easily and have the basics down pat at walk/trot in a halter before adding the bit. Then, I add it for them to carry while still using the halter. After a session or two, switch to the bit and headstall.
That’s how I like to do it. No drama, no trauma, just relaxed and taking them step by step.[/QUOTE]

The question here is, we don’t really know without seeing it directly what exactly the OP is doing.
Depending on that, what anyone may see there and reflect can be almost opposite from what that same observer would say if other was happening.

That above in general is how we started all kinds of horses for many years, ranch and race colts, all the same.
We worked with them on the ground until we felt they were understanding of a human working with them and responded to what we were asking of them.
Some of those took maybe half an hour, others may take some days to get them where we could tie a light long leadrope to the sides of the flat halter, have someone holding it for me and I would, from a bench, slide on and off all over, from both sides.

Once the horse was fine with that, it was led out for a bit and then I would ride it, bareback and in that halter, around the shedrow barn for a few turns.

Generally the next day, after repeating, I would ride it outside around the yard, still bareback and with the halter.
Then we would go to our homemade rope nose hackamore and ride them with that a couple of weeks, eventually adding a plain D snaffle under that, without reins attached yet to it.
By about the third or fourth week, I was riding them either in the rope nose hackamore or snaffle and bringing cattle off the canyons to headquarters on them, like a handful of cows and calves, or bulls, something slow and unexciting.

I really think it is not what you use on their heads as much as how you go about starting the horse.
Many ways can work, as long as they fit the horse you are working with and the human will see when something is not and keep changing until it does.

First picture was the first time on this filly we raised, the spring she was turning two.
One of our stallions gave us many “born broke” foals and she was one of those.
She just came along so very fast, we had handled her all her life and was fine with anything we wanted to do.
That first day, I got on in the barn, then even walked her for some minutes outside around the yard, bareback and with a halter.
A few days later, we had this stump in the yard and decided to drag it out of the way, so she was learning about a rope.
She was really straining to pull it, my fault, I didn’t realize how hard that stump was digging in with those root ends, but she was game and trying hard.

One picture shows how we started adding a snaffle under the rope hackamore for a little bit, then later added the reins and used both reins, then took the hackamore off.

She eventually went to the regional track and did well enough to go to the bigger track.
Not all our colts started quite so fast, most took a little longer, but this filly was born with a great mind, already smart beyond her years:

2323232327Ffp583Dot3E23263D773A3-1.jpg

What is your end goal? Meaning, what are your plans for the horse.

I’m a big believer that all horses should accept a bit, but I also believe that the mouth is very valuable and it shouldn’t be pulled on when lunging, etc.

Hackamore can be useful, but I am not a fan bitlesss bridles. They use poll pressure and there are plenty of other means to obtain that if it is what you want.

Lots of those bridles are marketed as being kinder to the horse, etc. Really, they are neither kinder nor harsher than anything else. This type of deceptive advertising really puts me off.

Also 2 is too young to ride, especially a slow maturing breed.

There is plenty of ground work to be done & I think you will find it more effective to train 3x per week instead of once. ,Gentle ground driving is great for babies & makes them much easier to ride. I think your horse is dull b/c he doesn’t understand what you want.

I wouldn’t use a cross under on a 2 year old (or any young horse) as they have so much going on under their jaw that might be extra sensitive.

I have started them both ways. I don’t find it makes a difference in the end product. BUT, if she is dull and you are having to pull, then I would change something: either more ground work or wait until she is more balanced/mature and try again.

[QUOTE=CHT;7811923]
I wouldn’t use a cross under on a 2 year old (or any young horse) as they have so much going on under their jaw that might be extra sensitive.

I have started them both ways. I don’t find it makes a difference in the end product. BUT, if she is dull and you are having to pull, then I would change something: either more ground work or wait until she is more balanced/mature and try again.[/QUOTE]

I agree 100% and no way I would use a Dr. Cooks or something like that on a young green horse. With so many pressure points being activated at once - I personally think it would be confusing.

A side pull yes - cross under - NO.

And I do TONS of ground work. If you are having to pull and the horse isn’t listening or confused - go back to the ground, simplify things so the horse understands.

I go back to the halter for backing - after introducing the bit, just so there are not too many “new” things at once. I want to keep things SIMPLE and CLEAR, so the horse can have many victories!

The people saying two year olds should not do cross-unders are probably right, at least while the molars are erupting. But then the very same thing can be said about using a bit when the canine teeth and premolars are erupting.

The Light Rider bitless bridle does not use any poll pressure, it is a modified Scawbrig, all the action is on the chin strap which should be down where a curb chain goes (the chin strap is about twice as wide as a curb chain and is very soft woven nylon.) It can be a good alternative to other systems of bitless bridles for horses that do not like poll pressure or pressure on the sharp lower jaw bones.

I appreciate all of the opinions and advice! I love hearing about other people’s experiences.

I’m not considering a cross-under as I’ve heard much more negative feedback about those as opposed to side pulls, which are basically glorified halters and leadropes. Jackie, your mention of her teeth coming in is one reason why I’m trying to stick with a bitless bridle for now; I certainly don’t want to cause her any pain while she tries to learn something new (the bit, in this case)! I’ve never heard of the bridle you mentioned, but it’s something I’m open to looking into.

Dressagelvr, every horse is different when it comes to appropriate riding ages. I, along with my vet, both agree that Fina is both physically and mentally capable of very light riding once a week. I’m not completely sure what my endgame will be with her; right now I’m just focused on loving her to death! I’d probably like to dabble a little bit in dressage eventually, which I know requires a bit for competition.

Anyway, the majority of our interactions and training are groundwork, and I’m going to start lunging and long-lining on a regular basis in order to help her learn rein cues.

According to Dr. Deb, no breed of horse is faster or slower-growing than any other breed. I really like this paper on riding young horses - if nothing else, it is food for thought.

http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf

Hi! The Light Rider bitless bridles can be seen at naturalhorseworld.com. It is a modified scawbrig bitless. The curb groove is pretty sensitive and I can ride with a rather light hand. Twitching fingers work almost as well as with a bit if I let the chin strap sort of loop down (very, very light contact–the weight of the reins.)

I have not tried the Libby scawbrig bitless bridle, but I did try the scawbrig option on the Micklem Multibridle. The Light Rider Bitless bridle works a lot better with a much lighter feel than the Micklem option.

[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7812168]
According to Dr. Deb, no breed of horse is faster or slower-growing than any other breed. I really like this paper on riding young horses - if nothing else, it is food for thought.

http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf[/QUOTE]

This was a really interesting read that does make me think twice about riding her. I’ve talked to multiple trainers and vets, and none of them seem to think that carrying a 110 lb. rider at a walk for 10 minutes per week (at most; sometimes I go weeks without riding her simply because I don’t feel the need to) is enough to do permanent damage. I mostly just hop on her every now and then to make sure that she doesn’t forget what having me on her feels like! The article is most definitely food for thought. Thanks for sharing it! :slight_smile:

And thanks for the link, Jackie! I’ll definitely check it out.