Ok so I have a horse in just a regular snaffle, but I need something with a bit more leverage. I dont want to put her in a correctional bit yet. Or one with shanks.
It’s hard to get much leverage without shanks. I guess maybe a Myler snaffle with hooks (or one of the cheaper Myler knock-offs) would give you a tiny bit of leverage. Otherwise, I think you would have to go to a kimberwicke.
Kimberwicke is a good step up from a plain snaffle. Gets you a bit of leverage without a shank.
Why do you want leverage? If she goes well in the plain snaffle, keep her in that. Rather than going to a leverage bit acting on her mouth, start with your seat, legs and hands to work on her self-carriage. With bits, usually “less is more,” and if the horse is correctly balanced between your seat/legs and hands, you’ll be riding through and forward, and she’ll be able to carry herself, including her head.
Can you also explain to me why some western catalogs sell what are called “correction” bits? IME any correction is something the rider needs to work on – again, seat, legs, and hands – it’s usually something we need to correct in ourselves, not in the horse’s mouth.
I was once told that the “correctional” mouthpiece is called such because it’s made to “correct” the horse’s headset simply by sitting in the mouth. If the horse goes above the sweet spot, the port pokes the roof of the mouth, reminding them to put their head back down. I’m not sure when exactly they started being a jointed mouthpiece - they used to be a solid mouthpiece.
I could be entirely off base though!
Good horsemanship is not about using mechanical gadgets to influence a horse’s head carriage. A horse ridden in balance, forward, and through, who has been trained so that his muscles and mind have developed enough for him to carry himself and his rider, will naturally carry his head comfortably.
Usually if a horse bumps off the bit, it is because he is either resisting the rider’s aids, or, quite often, because he is trying to avoid the effect of the bit. The solution to this is not to jam yet more gadgets into his mouth, but to get OUT of his mouth and go back to basics.
That’s why I asked why the OP wanted leverage.
Oh I agree, I was just responding to your comment about why they’re “correction” bits, that’s all.
If that’s what you are talking about by correction bit, OP, I wonder why you would ever have to use one at all. You would be far better off with an Argentine or any number of curb bits with a milder mouthpiece if and when you want something with shanks.
Why are you needing more leverage? I agree with the suggestions of a Myler-type bit with hooks or a Kimberwick if necessary, but training should be the first tool. RPM hit the nail on the head.
The port is not to poke the roof of the mouth to lower the head, it’s generally for tongue relief, some horses flip their heads if anything presses on the tongue. Some also hate the nutcracker action of jointed bits or motion of bits in their mouths that we think are softer but drive some horses, especially fussier ones, nuts with too many moving parts.
“Corrective bits” is a marketing strategy to make you spend money on a bit to fix a problem only spending that money on lessons or training with a better trainer us going to correct. Or spend it on a book explains bits and how/why they work or don’t.
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posted by APHA_at_heart:
Ok so I have a horse in just a regular snaffle, but I need something with a bit more leverage. I dont want to put her in a correctional bit yet. Or one with shanks.
I have the same questions as the other posters – why do you want leverage?
What problems are you having with the snaffle?
What exact snaffle are you currently using?
In my mind, going from a snaffle bit to a correction bit would be an enormous jump.
Also, you have to have some sort of “shank” in order to have leverage. That’s where the leverage comes from.
One could argue that a kimberwick is shanked. While it’s differently designed that a “true” shanked bit, there still is leverage present based on where you attach the reins.
Perhaps you used the word leverage to mean control.
I don’t know if you know all about shanks and leverage, but if you still want a snaffle bit, and you want a bit more control of the horse, I would use a three piece, medium twist snaffle. The dee type snaffle with a dog bone center. Reinsman makes some nice ones.
A bit is only as harsh as a riders hands. It’s okay that you have to move your horse to a different bit. I don’t think you are trying to cover up a problem. If something goes wrong, I wouldn’t want to find myself in a situation with not enough bit.
Neither would I. That’s why I, too, am wondering what exactly OP and horse are working on. So we can give good feedback. 
She is a reining horse. I said in the post that I dont think she is ready for a correctional bit. I guess I did use the wrong word. She is perfect at the trot drops her head and stretches, but a the lope she runs through the bit. I dont like how whoever started her, she is very funny about everything. She kind of hides from the bit at the lope, but perfect at the trot.
[QUOTE=RPM;9003784]
Good horsemanship is not about using mechanical gadgets to influence a horse’s head carriage. A horse ridden in balance, forward, and through, who has been trained so that his muscles and mind have developed enough for him to carry himself and his rider, will naturally carry his head comfortably. [/QUOTE]
It’s not possible to like this as many times as it deserves! 1 million thumbs up to this!
posted by APHA_at_heart:
She is a reining horse. I said in the post that I dont think she is ready for a correctional bit. I guess I did use the wrong word. She is perfect at the trot drops her head and stretches, but a the lope she runs through the bit. I dont like how whoever started her, she is very funny about everything. She kind of hides from the bit at the lope, but perfect at the trot.
Myself personally, I would not try to bump her up into a stronger bit. Sounds like her problem is that someone taught her to evade the bit. If you put her into something stronger, she is just going to evade it that much more.
Some reining trainers get those horses to go behind the vertical and evade the bit (because they way overdo it on the flexing). This problem is a pain in the butt to fix. I worked on re-training my aunt’s horse for her (so she could sell him) two years ago, and the first thing I did with him is take him out of a curb (albeit a short shank) and put him back into a snaffle with no leverage. I had to re-teach him to follow his nose (for turning) and learn that I wasn’t going to ask him to travel with his nose to his chest. I pretty much kept him on a loose rein and just put lots of riding miles on him outside of the arena. Tried to get him to “be a horse” again. He actually caught on very quickly; I was surprised. He really had a nice soft gentle mouth from the start but he just had to learn that I didn’t want him to put his nose to his chest when I picked up on the reins.
So I suppose that would be my advice to you. Get him out of the arena (if you can) and stay off his mouth. Let those reins loose. Let him re-learn that when you pick up on the reins, it means something. To him, it sounds like he’s so used to contact that asking for brakes with the reins mean nothing. Yes, of course, body cues are very important when asking for a stop, but those reins are important too.
On a side note, when has she had her teeth floated or examined last?
[QUOTE=apha_at_heart;9006580]
She is a reining horse. I said in the post that I dont think she is ready for a correctional bit. I guess I did use the wrong word. She is perfect at the trot drops her head and stretches, but a the lope she runs through the bit. I dont like how whoever started her, she is very funny about everything. She kind of hides from the bit at the lope, but perfect at the trot.[/QUOTE]
In the video she is being ridden very differently at the trot than at the lope. The rider in the loping footage needs to work on independent seat, which will affect balance, hands, etc., which will affect the horse’s way of going.
Your OP says “regular snaffle.” What mouthpiece? There are a whole lot of “regular” snaffles.
If it were me I would work a lot on developing my seat at the lope and not even think about changing my bit. As has been said, a gadget cannot take the place of good riding.
I would definitely forget about the sliding stops until I had an independent seat at the lope, could stay in place and cue regular downward transitions and could halt square while keeping my own balance (which will affect horse’s balance). It is always best to get your basics down before attempting advanced-level work!
Good luck!
The person riding her is very experienced. What do you mean by independent seat?
There may be as many descriptions of an independent seat as there are of a half-halt! But I will try to describe it as I understand it. Basically it is the seat independent of the reins. The rider does not need the reins for balance, or for a “secure” seat. But, since you say the rider in the video is experienced, I suggest asking her how she defines an independent seat. Because, as I said, it can be described in different ways.
I also suggest you watch some reining competition videos. Note the riders’ quiet seats and hands on the reins. They do not lose their center of gravity when the horse executes sliding stops, and their reins do not look “busy.” Quiet hands on the reins affect the bit in the horse’s mouth, and when the hands – and the reins – are “busy,” of course the horse is going to react to that. Not that I see your horse “running through” the bit.
I can’t tell from the video, but I hope the horse is wearing boots! Although since I’d be working on my seat at the lope before I tried any more sliding stops, she wouldn’t be needing boots for awhile.
Nice horse, BTW! Pretty mare.
