Bitting Advice- Elevator, Loop Ring / Wonder Bit, or ?

[JJA]

I was hoping to get some opinions about where you would go bit-wise for a horse that gets very heavy on the forehand and “tunnels” down over jumps.

This an ongoing training issue we have been working on, and while we have made a lot of progress, when jumping he can be more resistant (or oblivious) to being asked to engage his hind end/ lighten through the front. We currently use a Myler comfort snaffle for jump and flat and, apart from this issue, he is generally light and responsive. Obviously a bit is not going to provide a magic fix, but my thought was occasionally training in a different jump bit to reinforce cues might be a useful tool.

From what I’ve read, it appears elevator bits were designed with this problem in mind. One concern I have is my horse is very much a lazy “Kick-on” type ride. We’ve done a lot of work on getting him forward, so I would hate to undo that by putting something in his mouth that is going to feel like a wall/ encourage him to fall behind the leg.

I’ve also seen a few mentions that a loop ring/wonderbit/ wilkie is a similar but “safer” alternative to the elevator as it’s less severe. However, I wasn’t sure if this comparison assumes you are using one of the lower rings on an elevator bit, or if there
is also a notable difference between a loop/ wonderbit and an elevator with reins on the “snaffle” ring? My thought was an elevator has more options/ flexibility than the loop in terms of adjusting pressure/ leverage if need be, but if the mildest option is a big jump from a regular snaffle perhaps it would be more than I want to start with.

Any suggestions/ experiences/ insights about either of these bits or others for this type of issue would be very much appreciated! And of course if you have any non-bit tips or ideas for horses masquerading as lawn darts I would love to hear those as well!

Thank you in advance!!

[akor]

I am not a trainer. However, this was nearly the exact case as to why my youngster started XC in an elevator bit.

The horse was in professional training at the time, so I got “good” advice on how when to use. I also use it for “neck” control when she gets to using her HUGE neck against me. I call it neck control as it evens us out…a bit :o)

She also had a big issue with forward, and FWIW, that is a go off the leg issue. I had no issues using that bit on her, it help make it the “right” forward.

I put the reins on rings so I could adjust the rein placement “on the go” - so, if you feel her get behind, move the reins to the snaffle, remind your beast what “go” mean, then adjust down one and see what happens…

Note, she knows that bit, and the only issue I have is she would get “offended” if I started off on the lowest ring, almost like she dislike me assuming she would be naughty. I hardly every used the lowest ring (mine has 3).

I am starting her in it this spring for flat work, due to being born with bad feed and being a BRAT during a layup during a tendon issue she has had some time off.

[fordtraktor]

I like the loop ring (“Beval” or “wonder bit”) and the 2 ring elevator French links. I think they are both good bits to lighten horses, esp horses that are heavy on the forehand. The forward has to come from your leg, and you want to keep your hand light with these bits…if you keep a lot of contact they aren’t going to work.

My current horse is a lazy slug and he normally goes in a Novocontact eggbutt, but occasionally I will put him in a Beval bit French link just to make him step under himself more behind. I find it helps a lot of TBs learn to canter uphill like jumpers to go occasionally in a leverage bit and use a LOT of leg, then back to their normal bits. So once a month they’ll spend a ride in this bit. It’s a useful tool but you have to use leg with it, and a light hand, or it’s counterproductive (will hollow them out).

Don’t bother with a elevator with reins just on the snaffle ring, that’s pretty much a Baucher. the Beval will be stronger than that. To elevate you have to have it on one of the lower rings. I prefer the 2 ring to the 3 ring, have never had a horse that needed a 3 ring.

[kcmel]

My horse has this exact problem and I find the wonder bit helps. Of course me riding him better helps even more! Good luck!

[akor]

I should clarify that I count the snaffle as a “ring” so when I say it has three, I mean snaffle and then two lower.

[phoenixrises]

I will say I bought a wonderbit, my mare hates it, made her go around like a pogo stick no matter how light the contact. I ended up keeping her full cheek french link I’d had before and adding a figure 8 noseband. Solved her ignoring me but didn’t need a bigger bit.

She is forward but tended to be very down and “dumpy” after a jump and ignored my attempts at getting her back on her butt.

[fordtraktor]

[QUOTE=akor;8602004]
I should clarify that I count the snaffle as a “ring” so when I say it has three, I mean snaffle and then two lower.[/QUOTE]

Yes, that’s a three ring. This is a two ring – this is a nice one with the oval mouth:
http://www.doversaddlery.com/ovation-elite-cntr-ovl-2rng-el/p/X1-0100019/?eid=X18A00U1000&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=MerchantAdv&zmam=1460880&zmas=1&zmac=114&zmap=0100019000054X1-0100019&mkwid=sQEHwfl4C&crid=75877011847&mp_kw=&mp_mt=&pdv=c&gclid=COSV7KWI7ssCFdgXgQodF6EA9A

[FrittSkritt]

I have the Neue Schule 3 ring “universal gag” with the Verbindend mouthpiece (technically it’s a knockoff :lol:), and it works pretty well for my forehand-heavy TB. (TBH, I’m not sure whether it’s the mouthpiece or the rings that are primarily at work – the Verbindend mouthpiece is supposed to be good at helping lighten the forehand.)

At first I only rode with one rein on the lower ring, and found I had trouble bending/steering – kind of like when you ride with a gag bit with the gag rein only. I think it has to do with the bit rings having to rotate so much (until the mouthpiece “hits” the top ring).

I ended up putting a second snaffle rein on and it’s helped the steering problem, although I’m not super confident that I’ll be able to maintain that setup on XC. I have a hard enough time remembering where I’m going, let alone handling two sets of reins! Neue Schule shows using a pelham converter (aka roundings) as an option, which may be a good in-between step between the not-enough snaffle rein and the curb/gag rein.

[kinscem]

My advice might not be favorite because it is not a quick bit fix. But since you have invited other opinions:
Flat work is my suggestion. Flat work transitions will make your horse not only not barrel thru your hands but also will make him less lazy!
Take the flat work over ground poles, straight and variety of patterns on circle, figure 8 etc.
All this will take some time. Will be worth it.

There are a lot of resources available to help you with the patterns.
Bit changes will NOT help.

[yellowbritches]

While I am an advocate of more/better schooling, I also am realistic about the fact that not every horse can go in a snaffle all of the time. So, yes, keep working on the issue, but either bit MAY work.

My current horse hates both things, though, honestly, this is not his issue, and when we had to upgrade bits for awhile, a gag was our answer. But my former horse tended to want to gallop with his nose between his knees. I originally tried an elevator/ring/Pessoa bit. I used two reins and only had the bottom rein on the middle ring. He had two gears with that but- dead gallop or canter in place. I tried a wonder bit, and it was JUST the right amount. So, I would say, wonder bit is the step up from the snaffle, ring bit is up from that.

I would also suggest that since your guy isn’t super forward (which can sometimes make this particular problem challenging), think of these bits as “use it and lose it” bits. Use the bit, get the desired response, and then allow him to travel with a bit of a loop in the reins. If he barrels through, correct again, and then loop.

[Silverbell]

For just leaning without necessarily pulling, I have found a waterford bit to be very helpful. No leverage, but a mouthpiece that largely prevents the horse from leaning. It works best for me when I can try to keep the contact light and my arms soft, but the horses on which I’ve used it are very much forward types.

[JJA]

Thank you so much everyone for your thoughtful responses! I think we’ll see if we can borrow a couple of the suggestions and see if anything clicks.

Yellowbritches your advice to “use it and lose it” was how I was hoping I could approach this as well so glad to hear that plan makes sense!

And Kinscem I very much appreciate your suggestion as well! Flatwork is definitely where we’ve been trying to focus on the issue (and have thankfully seen some slow but steady progress!) and your exercise suggestions are ones I will add in to our schooling work for sure.

Thank you again everyone!