I’m not sure what to try next with this guy. Something with keys or a roller? The only thing he really seemed to love was a sidepull, but I’d be afraid to take him out in public in it. Not quite enough steering or brakes.
Teeth have been seen in the past 6 weeks. I’ve only had the horse since October, and haven’t had all that many rides on him since winter was gross and I’ve got 2 kids at home during the day. I’ve tried a comfort fit full cheek, which he HATED. It seems to be the curved bars. He doesn’t quite hate a stainless d as much, and seemed relatively less miserable in a Mullen happy mouth. He actually went halfway
decent in a brass loose ring, and then the twisty tongue started. It’s not like he’s sticking his tongue over it, or out the side, but more like he’s pressing his tongue up against the left side of his mouth and jaw.
he’s very, very green, (think wet noodle) and has a tendency to duck behind the contact and can get light in front when he’s frustrated.
How much room does he have in his mouth and what’s his mouth shaped like?
Tough to glean what the issue is from your post, and what mouthpieces you’ve tried. But I do have a busy mouthed horse who does better with something to play with when he gets nervous. He’s pretty happy in an eggbutt that has a French mouthpiece with some copper rollers.
He’s got a pretty normal mouth with regards to room and shape.
we’ve tried:
comfort snaffle (Big Nope)
loose ring stainless snaffle
stainless dee ring
brass loose ring
Mullen happy mouth
sweet iron with copper inlay loose ring
he seems to like the warmer metals, and more stable cheeks. But even in the bits he seems to like, he’s still stressy and does the weird playing with his tongue thing.
Are the bits single or double jointed? I think a lot of it is just the fact that he is green. How long are you trying each bit for? Days, weeks? What are you doing with him as far as your riding discipline? Trails, showing, what type of training?
Single jointed, since it’s what I have laying around. Not opposed to trying a French link. Right now we are just puttering around having a good time. Some hunting, trails, western gaming, a little jumping, some trails. . . I’d like to do more dressage, but he gets ring sour quick, and he can be very immature. I reckon we’ve got plenty of time to let him grow up.
I guess I’d try a double jointed bit with a lozenge or French link, see if he likes that more than the Mullen. And just pick the least offensive to him and if he doesn’t have any issues due to anatomy he should learn to live with it.
Does he know the one rein stop? Asking because you said he’s lacking in brakes and steering with a sidepull. If he’s lacking in steering in a sidepull or anything, really, it sounds like he just needs more time and training. It might be too early for much contact.
Brass is toxic, so I expect you mean German Silver or Cupreon or Aurigan or something . . . ? There are a bunch of “warmer” metals in this category, all meant to encourage salivation in a similar way.
Anyhow, it seems like some horses are very picky about bit style and thickness, while others are picky about metal. Sometimes it’s hard to tell which is which, so you might try the same simple bit (say a medium thickness French link eggbutt) in two different metals (say stainless steel and German Silver) and see if the horse prefers one over the other.
If he shows no preference, you could try the same metal in two different styles, and so on.
This system is more efficient than simply trying random things, I think, but of course it can get pretty spendy. Could you possibly borrow bits from a friend or trainer to make it a bit cheaper?
The cheek just isn’t that important–you’ve basically made very teeny tiny changes to the exact same bit, if these are all a single jointed snaffle. I think your plan to try a french link mouthpiece is a good one. Go with a dee ring or egg butt or full cheeks to give him the stability he’s looking for. You might even try a boucher french link.
I ride a mare that plays with her tongue when excited or anxious. She does it at feeding time, or if a horse is tied near her stall, so it isn’t a bit thing, but she does it when ridden, which sounds similar to what your horse is doing. For now I have just put her in a side pull, as then her tongue silliness doesn’t take away my control. I am planning to eventually ride her with a bitted bridle with the side pull to get her comfortable with the bit again. I will probably start with a ported Myler that doesn’t allow for much motion and will give her tongue room to play.
I find I have more brakes in a sidepull in general, but less steering.
I have found that some horses that fuss and worry about contact tend to prefer a fixed cheek bit (d-ring, eggbutt, full cheek) that offers some stability. One that takes too much of a hold may benefit from the play in a loose ring.
The tongue twisting thing makes me think he may not like the nutcracker effect of a single jointed bit. I saw a fascinating Facebook post from an equine dentist showing bits in the mouth of a dainty-faced young thoroughbred. They had the speculum in, so you could really see how the bit sat and fit across the horse’s mouth. I was somewhat shocked how poorly a French link fit that particular horse: the joints actually sat on her bars, causing a lot of discomfort. A ported correction loose ring fit her mouth like a glove; it was a really neat perspective!
Any way, after that detour, I would try something double jointed, probably with a flat plate (French link) versus an oval lozenge type link. He may not like the tongue pressure a lozenge link can have. My own horse hated a KK bit or anything with a lozenge link, but he went wonderfully in a French link. He had a lowish palate and a fairly thick tongue, and didn’t have much room for a thicker mouthpiece. Of course, your mileage may vary. I hope you have a friend with a bit box!
I think my next steps would be trying a french link, something relatively thin (like a bradoon on its own), something with a little bit of a port, and a snaffle with hooks (unless you already tried that with the comfort snaffle). Perhaps a waterford as well. The key may be how the bit is interacting with his tongue and the roof of his mouth, and it sounds like most of what you already tried was very similar in that regard.
Real old fashioned, but we still “mouth” all our horses by letting them wear the bit, no reins, in their stalls for a couple hours a day before we start riding or working a young or new-to-us horse. We prefer a 3 piece mouth, ring sides, about 3/8 inch diameter mouthpiece, stainless steel bit. Bit is the proper mouth width because we MEASURE his mouth first. No guessing as I find most folks do in picking a size. “Horse is so refined, must wear a 5inch bit.” In reality horse measures 5 1/2 inches, so tight bit is painful to wear, makes training time something to be dreaded!
Horse is bridled, not up tight or bit low to bump his teeth. He is left in his stall to get used to the bit on his own time, usually wearing it for a couple hours at a time. He will get tongue all over the place! If bridle is a little loose as suggested above, he can get tongue over and usually back under, without help. Within a couple days he can have a small snack of a handful oF grain, small amount of hay to eat while wearing his bit. He learns to manage the bit, his tongue, gets a drink, working towards “No big deal, I am wearing a bit”. He does not get excited when bridled, which helps him stay relaxed as you add surcingle or saddle for lessons.
He quits gnawing bit, gaping his mouth constantly, just gets tired doing that in his stall! He will hold the bit quietly, act relaxed in time. I then consider horse ready for the next step, communicating with long lines or reins in the next step of training. Horse may wear bit in stall for a couple weeks, or as long as needed to get him quiet mouthed while bridled. Watch for soring in lip corners, maybe let him have a break then, time off, so it improves.
I have met a couple horses who liked to just lift the mouthpiece and drop it after going thru their mouthing training. Interestingly it was a mother and son, though none of her other produce ever did that. Both stood like rocks when asked in work, for long times, anyplace. Only moving thing was the bit mouthpiece, just a tiny clink as it rose and fell. I figured it was not an issue worth arguing about, they were so good about every other thing asked of them. Every horse has some quirks, that was an easy enough quirk to live with. They were soft mouthed, easy to direct as needed with the reins.
Mouthing our horses takes out the bit fussiness in young animals. They are able to pay attention to what you are asking in the training sessions, not distracted chomping the bit or playing with their tongues. The bradoon suggested above I would consider too sharp on horse bars for mouthing time or a young horse. Not recommended by me. Any bigger diameter, thick bits like eggbutt types, can be over filling a young horse mouth. Horse has no idea what to do with all that stuff, tongue, big bit, in his mouth! The 3/8 inch diameter I recommended for a mouthpiece has worked well for our horses, not too big or small to start with, easily managed as he learns to wear his bridle. He then can move to other bits as he is developed, has no issues as his mouth gets trained.
One last note, stick your thumb in to make horse OPEN his mouth when unbridling. Most will lock their jaw, wanting to hold the bit so you will inadvertently clank the bit on his teeth causing pain and a fight. Most horses quickly catch on if you say “Open” as you put your thumb in mouth corner, will help by opening mouth to release the bit. Comes in handy all the horse’s life, preventing teeth bumping by the bit.
That’s what I do. I’ll even turn them out and lunge in a cavesson with bit holders.
If he was least bothered by the mullen Happy Mouth, what about a plain old stainless mullen?
With bits you sometimes “have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prince”! 
I commend to you William Langdon’s book here https://www.amazon.com/Bits-Bitting-Manual-Western-English/dp/B000GQU1WK
It will walk you through the anatomy, physiology, and function of bits. It will explain clearly the functions and actions of different types. Buy the book and you’ll likely save a ton of money buying bits.
A horse that is “unhappy” with a bit might be telling you he’s uncomfortable and might be demonstrating a resistance that he has learned. I taught a horse to be a “photic head shaker” one afternoon when I was younger and dumber. She kept shaking her head and nothing was wrong. I know nothing was wrong because every time she did it I dismounted to check it. Silly me. She learned that if she shook her head she got break. That was about 17 years ago. To this day “head-shaking” is one of her standard “resistances” when she gets a bit fatigued.
Interestingly, I’m currently riding one of her offspring and he does the exact, same thing even though I was careful with him not to teach the behavior. Maybe there’s more to this genetic stuff than we like to think!
So it may come to pass that if you find a bit that is appropriate to your discipline and needs, fits the horse, and is correctly adjusted the fact that the horse “hates” it is going to require you to say, “so sad, too bad; suck it up buttercup” and ride them out until they learn that this is their life. Note that this is not the first choice but if there IS NO physiological reason for resistance then you’re left with a mental problem.
Good luck as you go forward.
G.
If he seems to prefer stability in a bit, then try a baucher. My previous mare was extremely fiddly with her mouth, and with the baucher (a double-jointed one), that habit went away. Not overnight but within a couple of weeks.
This. There are a variety of mullen mouth bits, slight differences that may make one better than the other. The nice thing about a mullen mouth metal bit is that there are no moving parts, they are “simple”. The bad thing about mullen mouth bits is that there are no moving parts, so you can’t move only one side of the bit at a time with your rein pressure. But that may be OK, your horse is green and you don’t need to be using complex rein pressures right now, ride the horse forward from your leg and only very little use of the reins anyway at this stage, basic navigation only. But if you have a horse who only will accept an unbroken mouthpiece, you use a mullen mouth bit.
Have you long lined this horse? That will help him to understand the use of the bit.
I inherited a bit many years ago, that one horse I had just loved immediately. It is a straight bar, with a large tongue groove (rather than being mullen) and full cheeks. She wore it throughout her show career. Suited her perfectly. But I don’t know what it is called, and haven’t seen another one like it.
When you stumble on the right one for your horse, your horse will let you know.
It’s funny that someone mentioned a baucher. I’ve never used one, since everything I’ve ridden had gone in single jointed snaffles, kimberwickes, pelhams, or a double, but from handling one at the track store I kinda thought it might be worth trying with him.
I’ll get the book coming.
My fiddly horses have liked the Peewee bit. It’s a thin sweet iron mullen mouth.
https://cdn7.bigcommerce.com/s-06817…=2&imbypass=on
You can almost always find them on eBay for a lot less than retail.
The other bit that seems to help is the Neue Schule Verbindend or the Demi-Anky
http://nsbits.com/product/verbindend/
http://nsbits.com/product/demi-anky-universal/
I hunt my fiddly mouthed mare in the Demi-Anky universal because she’s quite soft in and doesn’t hide behind the bit. Most of the rest of the time she goes in a PeeWee bit. She also likes being ridden in a sidepull but there aren’t enough brakes for hunting!
