My trainer is big on Pessoa bits. We ride on the center ring like a normal snaffle till we decide we need the leverage. It’s really only ever XC that it might come out and if we are not sure how it’s gonna go we start in that center ring til we need it.
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I wish I could take some lessons from you. I have always wanted to learn to ride with a double bridle.
I always find your posts interesting because I have a autonomic nervous system disorder that really messes with my balance and puts me off kilter a lot and destroys my riding joy.
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Admittedly you have an unbalanced seat due to your MS issues. Did you jump cross country before your MS affected your seat so much? I remember the pictures that you shared several years ago and you were indeed very unbalanced in the saddle on a lesson horse in a schooling ring (and you looked as if you were having fun 
)
I think that you are doing your best and I admire your tenacity, however, riding a lesson horse in an enclosed space is light years away from jumping a horse cross country.
I had a gelding that I raised and trained from a weanling (he died at 18 years) that I hacked out in a full bridle but we were not in an enclosed space. Cantering, galloping, and jumping requires much more tact with your reins than does riding a lesson horse in an enclosed space. You may be able to handle a full bridle on lesson horses in an enclosed space while having balancing issues, but can you not see the difference between how you are riding and how different it is than a person hacking out or, especially, riding cross country over jumps?
I would not give advice to people who are competing in Eventing, because I have never competed in Eventing.
I have hacked horses, mine and my employers. I’ve only ridden my horses on a friend’s (parents) cross country course a few times when I was young, but never have competed in Eventing and wouldn’t think of giving bitting advice based on my experience.
My gelding was the only horse I’ve had that I hacked out in a full bridle and I was certainly not training him to jump across country. I think your well meaning advice is mistaken in this instance.
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Get yourslf a proper well fitted cavesson, learn to how properly fit side reins, find yourself a large round pen, or a safely enclosed area, and work wkith him there.
It may also be that You need longing lessons.
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People are joking here, right? There are horses in the world that, for one reason or another, have learned that they can take you for a drag. Even better if they’ve learned to turn away from you first so they can get that extra leverage, and better yet if they’ve learned to turn away and then head the opposite direction so that you’re pulling on their butt instead of their face.
Fixing this problem is more difficult than “put side reins on and get in a round pen” because when you’re trying to introduce a horse to a jump (or a bank) on the lunge, you’re not going to have side reins or a round pen to do it in. Working in a round pen with the horse forced to submit is 100% not the same as working out in an open field. Ground work isn’t going to, be default, resolve this either.
Good grief people.
@Spudsmyguy, my mare knows how big she is, and putting her in a bridle with an “over the poll” set up for the lunge line attachment takes the wind out of her sails pretty quick. It pulls the bit UP in their mouth so they can’t bear down and drag you. I find the “over the poll” attachment to be extremely severe (and so does Ingrid Klimke…), and try not to use it unless I absolutely have to.
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Ground work isn’t a fix all. It’s a tool that is part of an overall programs toolbox. Sounds like the poster talking about lunging loves their horse but struggles in some areas. Ground work will help immensely in those areas. Ground work doesn’t equal chasing horses in a round pen. Ground work is about teaching your horse to listen to you and you to listen to your horse. To get them on your side, so they don’t feel the need to run away. This is especially true when horses are bolters.
Why would one be against ground work. Much can be done in training from the ground.
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I’m not against it. But it doesn’t, by default, resolve bolting. Bolting is a learned habit, and because horses tend to win when Tug-Of-War gets real, it can be a self-rewarding habit. Like counter surfing in dogs - it’s harder than “well teach him not to do that.”
Oh yes, when I was in my early 20s I jumped, including in the ring, in a big pasture, out on the trails and to get out to the trails, on my first horse. With my first horse, bought at 5 years old and 3 weeks of training (green, green, green) I followed Littauer and trained him to become a reliable safe jumping horse. I was jumping 3’6" 3-4 times a week, several fences in a row, both in the ring and out in the humungous pastures, as well as occasional obstacles on the trail. To get to the good trails I had to jump out of the pasture, one chicken coop and a fence made of BIG THICK logs. Nothing earth shattering, I boarded at the barn of a previous Master of the Hounds (she was the one that said that I was good enough to experiment with the double bridle on my horse). I am so glad I had my fun back then!
I felt quite inferior because I was not good enough to jump 4’. Since most hunter/jumper classes for adults had 4’ jumps I was not a competitor, not that I could afford to show anyway.
When I started with my current teacher one of my dreams was to get back to jumping 2’ safely. However my nervous system is obviously too damaged to safely jump a horse and I shudder to think I how I would be abusing the horse over fences because of all my problems. After several years of work I realized that those absolutely necessary nerves were NOT coming back and I gave up, at least I had gotten my seat much stronger (relatively speaking, I probably have the weakest seat of anyone here.) My teacher and I had a rather long talk about this, she told me that in an emergency I probably could manage to stay on over a 2’ fence without ruining the horse but I am not going to try, I’m crippled now, a sad fact of life.
I’ve retrained a few terrible bolters. One of them used to be led off the lorry with a bridle, halter, and two chains over his nose and he stil dragged people away and got loose and would run around the event like a mad man. One of my first days working on their farm, he tucked spun and dragged me a good 500m back to to the stables lol Ground work resolved it completely. Another one in Ireland, who came off the hunt field as a 4 year old that bolted as soon as you sat on its back. Also resolved with ground work, moved onto under saddle work.
Ground work can teach a horse so much, teach you about your horse, and make learning together a trusting and enjoyable experience. If you aren’t doing it with patience and kindness though, it won’t do much.
Again, not saying its a cure all, its a tool in the tool box but imo one of the best ones.
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To go back to the question, I like a Waterford for leaning but I don’t think it has a lot of stop.
A Beval bit is a good baby step
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I’m trying to picture this, can you post a picture of what you’re using?
I know how to lunge my horse and I know how to fit side reins. I think this was a learned behavior before I owned him and then it got reinforced when I first started lunging him. It was SOP for him to bolt at least once on the lunge line because he knew he could get away from me. The last few times he’s been a perfect gentleman on the line working in side reins.
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I’m not endless climb, but I think she’s saying, run the lunge line through the inside bit ring, then over the poll and clip to the outside bit ring like this:
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Okay, thanks. I was having a brain fart. That’s how I usually attach it when not using the chain. I run it over the poll and under the throatlatch on both sides to keep it from sliding back.
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Also, some more unsolicited advice for you 
This BB is a fantastic resource to ask questions and get ideas. At the end of the day, you just need to sift through which suggestions are good for you and your horse and which are not. We can all give you advice based on what you’ve told us and we might respond based on our prior experiences with horses we’ve known or worked with. But for example, if your horse is difficult to lunge, maybe its not the right horse to introduce to fences on the lunge line (or maybe it is! It’s your horse, you know him much better than I do as a stranger on the internet)
It’s very, very difficult to share the exact context of your horse and the problems you’ve experienced as well as the progress you’ve made on them in a text on a board. One of the things I like about asking on COTH is you’re likely to get a lot more variety of suggestions than if you just ask your trainer or a friend etc. The drawback is none of us know you or your horse, so we’re just kind of guessing and offering suggestions based on what we think from what you’ve told us which just doesn’t always capture the full situation.
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I’ve been on this board for about 15 years so am well aware of the expertise available here. If you want my full experience level with horses, I’d be happy to elaborate. Let’s just say I didn’t just fall off the turnip truck. Thank you though.
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We were very lucky to have so much open space to ride when we were young.
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Are you talking to me? The beval is a nice mild upgrade with one rein.
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Oops, I apologize, I meant my post about pelhams to be a general reply to the thread. I was on my phone and sometimes it anticipates me!
I’ve seen Bevals before, didn’t know that’s what they were called, are they sort of like an Uxeter without the chain or lever action?
Yes!!! 
