Black Country dressage saddle question

[CanteringCarrot]

Those of you with experience with Black Country dressage saddles, do you find that they run small?

I’ve only ever owned their jump saddles (which were great). I remember getting a Vinici on trial for my last horse, and it was my usual size, which is 17.5, and everything about the saddle seemed…small. I didn’t bother riding in it, because although it was labeled as a W, it was shockingly narrow. The flap width seemed small, the length seemed ok, and I don’t need a long flap anyway, but the whole saddle just seemed small.

I’ve been considering an Eloquence for my horse at some point, but are these saddles just small? Or is that/was that just me?

[sheltona01]

The dressage saddle are pretty true to size if a little generous. They are a great choice coming strictly from jump saddles. They are more moderate dressage saddles than a lot out of models on the market.

The reason why the jump saddle probably felt same is that is was a little deeper than what you were use too.

[DawnJL]

I have been riding in BC saddles since 2008. I was measured for seat size by an independent fitter and my horses have always had back/wither tracings done so that I knew which type and size of tree was most suited for them. I have both customized BCS saddles and ones I bought second hand. All have fit as expected. (They can be ordered with shorter flaps and various panel configurations which can affect the sizing.)

FWIW, a deeper seated saddle in the same size as a flatter seat will feel smaller. The BCS Kur is a dressage saddle with a flatter seat than the other dressage models. My 17 Kurs fit me similarly to the 17.5 Eloquence and Eden saddles that I’ve ridden in.
This is one of my BCS Kur saddles showing how flat the seat is compared to the other models:

Also the width of a standard BCS tree is going to be narrower than that same width in a BSC hoop tree so tree type matters too.

I have some BCS jump saddles too and haven’t noticed any difference in scale between them and the dressage saddles.

[ClearDonkey]

I ride in an Eloquence and I think they ride a bit larger due to having a shallower seat compared to other models.

[CanteringCarrot]

Hm, interesting. It wasn’t just about the seat though. I get the deep vs more open seat thing.

I’d love to see more of these saddles in person, but it’s just not an option where I live. So maybe it was just that one?

I do really like their serge panel feature. I have a young horse though, so he’s very subject to change and I’m not sure what will be next for us. I just remember the seat, especially on the Quantum, was soo comfortable.

[Posting_Trot]

@CanteringCarrot

I do really like their surge panel feature. I have a young horse though, so he’s very subject to change and I’m not sure what will be next for us. I just remember the seat, especially on the Quantum, was soo comfortable.

Sorry, this paragraph made me laugh a bit. A “surge” panel on a Quantum saddle made me think of the horse doing quantum leaps–perhaps airs above the ground if it were a dressage saddle. Press the button and the horse surges forward and upward! (Now if this was all happening on a Pegasus saddle, we’d really have something!)

Anyway, I had one BC jump saddle that had the serge panels and liked it.

[CanteringCarrot]

@Posting_Trot

@CanteringCarrot

I do really like their surge panel feature. I have a young horse though, so he’s very subject to change and I’m not sure what will be next for us. I just remember the seat, especially on the Quantum, was soo comfortable.

Sorry, this paragraph made me laugh a bit. A “surge” panel on a Quantum saddle made me think of the horse doing quantum leaps–perhaps airs above the ground if it were a dressage saddle. Press the button and the horse surges forward and upward! (Now if this was all happening on a Pegasus saddle, we’d really have something!)

Anyway, I had one BC jump saddle that had the serge panels and liked it.

It should’ve been “serge”

[CanteringCarrot]

I don’t know I’d context matters, but when I had the Vinici on trial, my horse was in a Fairfax Gareth. So maybe in comparison to that it seemed “small”

I dunno. It was a few years ago now.

[sheltona01]

If it was a dressage saddle it probably was the blocks in the Vinici making it feel small. I tend to order custom blocks that are shorter on my client’s saddles.

[outerbanks77]

I have an 18" Vinici and find it rides true to size. In fact, I’ve been on the hunt for a new saddle, and trialed an 18" Aviar that I felt pretty much poured into, then I tried an 18.5 Dresch, and the seat felt more comparable to the Vinici (it’s deeper, so that makes sense). I had an 18.5 Quantum for a bit and it definitely felt too large, but was what I could get that worked for my horses at the time. Now I’m in an 18" Pessoa for jumping and it’s just right for me. In the past I’ve had a few other 18" BC dressage saddles and they all rode about the same as my Vinici as far as the seat (my saddle has forward flaps and a short block built to my specs).

Everything is so subjective with saddles. My Vinici is a wide hoop tree and a little wide for my girl - the Dresch was advertised as MW to W, and the gullet was actually wider than the Vinici, although it was more of an A rather than hoop shape, so it ended up being too wide for my horse. I did compare the two side by side and the Dresch was a lot of saddle, the Vinici more compact and minimalist.

[CanteringCarrot]

Definitely subjective. I had a fitter recommend the Eloquence, and I’m glad I popped in here first for this info. I did find one that I could take on trial with what should be the right tree size/shape. The fitter doesn’t stock this. I’m hesitant because I have a young horse that could change shape 5 minutes from now but if I can resell the saddle and break even or be out only a couple hundred, I’m cool with that. What he has right now fits him quite well, but for whatever reason, neither of us are in love with it.

[GreyDes]

I’ll echo the true to size comments. I have an 18” dressage and a 17.5” jumping saddle from BC. I have one of their deeper seated models with short blocks and it fits well.

I’m either an 18” or an 18.5” in most dressage saddles, depending on the brand/model.

I worked with Patty Merli for a remote fitting and am very happy with the fit.

[anonevent]

Different models run differently. My Eloquence (dressage) is true to size. I have a Solare Vinici on trial that the fitter said will run small in the seat relative to the Eloquence.

[beowulf]

I have three BC saddles. I do not find they run small. I have a Vinici Dressage (17), and two Vinici Solares (17 and a 17.5).

I have noticed my BC Vinici dressage feels a little constrictive to me, but I believe that is the knee blocks pushing my legs out of my habitual chair seat.

Another +1 for the serge saddles. All of my BCs are serge. I think it makes a huge difference.

And ditto using Patty Merli, she is the best!! All 3 of the horses in these BCs are happy years down the road with the saddle Patty fit for them, which IMO says a lot about the caliber of Patty’s eye.

[CanteringCarrot]

All good info. Thanks everyone!

I’ve definitely heard only good things about Patty. She’s not at all local to me, so it’d have to be virtual. The shipping back and forth does give me a headache at times though. I’m also hesitant to go new, because again, young horse. However, the BC can be adjusted up one size, I think. So there’s that if he only needs more width upfront. If I have to go new, I will. I’d like to not exceed $5,500. I am going to try a used one that was recommended to me first (right specs, hopefully).

[BraveSC]

They can be adjusted up to 2cm (so one size). I have done this with my jump saddle. GOod luck i your search! I have two BCs and love them.

[GreyDes]

You can go wider or narrower by one size. Be aware that you need a fitter with a press for it and I believe there’s a limit on how many times you can safely adjust the tree.

You should be able to find something within that budget and several of the models will be there new if you can’t find anything used that works.

I found the remote fitting pretty easy. The hardest part for me was getting someone to take photos/video so Patty could assess fit.

One random note - Patty actually steered me away from serge for my horse. I have a mare who is very particular about fit and she said she doesn’t recommend serge for these types of horses. If I recall correctly it was something about them being able to feel changes in the flocking more in the serge panels?

This may not apply to you, but thought I’d mention it as it was new info for me.

[CanteringCarrot]

Oh that’s interesting. The one I am about to try has serge panels. I don’t know how particular my horse will be about it.