Something is definitely fishy. I agree with everyone, especially about contacting the CC company or bank.
I’m not terribly familiar with BCs, but one of our clients does have two (xc and dressage…have no idea what models). They are lovely, high quality saddles (I personally think the felt panels are goofy, but whatever). This does not look right.
I would print out his website & look at your receipt. At the very least, he’s not obligating his agreement & should you go to court, might prove helpful in getting your money back if the cc route doesn’t work.
Also, if you have a lawyer friend, maybe they can make a phone call on your behalf - or write a letter. Might be enough to get the ball rolling.
At the very least, BC should have replied that they were ‘looking into this matter.’
[QUOTE=goodmorning;5376585]
I would post something on the facebook page with a photo of the terrible stitching. And the caption - “My BC saddle provided by saddle fitter Bob Cooper.”[/QUOTE]
I did this. It’s been 4 days. At this point I’ll do anything to get someone’s attention about this. They are just ignoring me.
I’ve already printed the website out.
Unfortunately my receipt just has the amounts and is marked “Paid”. It doesn’t say anything else.
He said he absolutely does not “accept credit cards”, and now I know why. I bet someone else made a credit card claim against him.
I paid by check. So no luck there. I’m not sure if small claims is an option, but I will look into it.
Lots and lots of “lessons learned” on this one.
I’ve been riding for 30 years, I’ve purchased at least a dozen custom saddles over the years, and this is the first time I’ve been totally scammed. I guess I was just too trusting. I did NOT see this coming.
[QUOTE=BadEventer;5376595]
Bob has not returned my calls or emails for the past 4 days. Neither has Black Country. I’ve emailed Black Country and The Society for Master Saddlers. So far, I haven’t gotten a response from anyone. What happened in your case?
A quote from Bob’s website:
"I bring demo saddles to the client so they can see, touch and ride in a saddle before making a purchasing obligation. This ensures that the saddle will be correct for the horse and, just as importantly, for the rider.
Following delivery of the saddle, I insure that the saddle is exactly as ordered and the saddle fits the horse. I provide all necessary follow-up fitting and maintenance for the life of the saddle."[/QUOTE]
If this guy has not done what was promised on his website, you do need to let Nikki at BC know.
In a different, non-911 situation, Nikki did take some time to get back to my e-mail. Don’t freak out on BC quite yet. If you haven’t heard anything by, say, next Wednesday, I would e-mail them again.
[QUOTE=BadEventer;5376622]
I did this. It’s been 4 days. At this point I’ll do anything to get someone’s attention about this. They are just ignoring me.[/QUOTE]
I realize you are pissed and rightly so, but please be realistic with your pissivity. Two of those four days were not business days. A business that doesn’t answer your email in two business days is not “ignoring you,” especially not in a business where people frequently have to be out of the office at shows, fittings, etc. Great Britain is also 5 hours ahead of US Eastern Standard Time, making the time crunch even more extreme.
If you want a faster answer, get on the phone. Otherwise, be realistic and give them a few days. In the meantime you can explore other options, like disputing the charge through your bank account (it’s possible albeit not easy), contacting the Better Business Bureau, etc.
I might change the title of this thread to something about Bob Cooper and I think, if by tomorrow evening, I didn’t hear back, I’d be plastering this up and down facebook. And asking my friends to do the same.
I find it hard to believe that not a single BC rep reads this forum.
In this day of cell phones and internet 2 business days (and 2 weekend days which really are business days for the horse world) is PLENTY of time to have expected some sort of response, even if it’s “I got your message and will call you Tuesday when I have had time to look into the problem”.
I am expected to return phone calls within 24 hours (except weekends when the office is actually closed) and so many times people say “oh gosh, you called me back!?” Which I find odd.
Call them on Monday. And track every call and email.
Did you have ‘read receipts’ on the e-mails? FWIW, COTH forum results are the first to come up via a google search. That alone should tip off BC. Sorry, that’s a poorly constructed saddle - not all the reps fault. If a business does not check their e-mails over the weekend, they should have an ‘out of the office’ automated message set up. These are normal business practices.
[QUOTE=BadEventer;5376622]
Again, as others have said, you have a right to be pissed - your pictures showed shoddy work. BUT I think you need to give BC a bit more time. You posted on FB roughly an hour ago (Sunday AM). Give them at least four business days. And I’ll disagree with an above poster, I would not expect an “out of office” reply if an email was sent over the weekend. I would only expect that if the email was sent during business hours and the person was in fact out of the office for an extended period of time. If you want instant gratification call them.
Ditto.
FWIW, I have three BCS saddles that I purchased built to specifications. The construction is of high quality and the company has been nothing but supportive and responsive (as was my rep–Trumbull Mtn.)
Something is fishy here for sure, but this incident is so out of the norm from all the feedback I’ve seen and heard about BCS that it bears further investigation before pronouncing that BCS has failed this customer.
I thought that the FB message was also posted 4-days ago, I must have misunderstood that.
I was referring to the simple automated response e-mail that many companies/offices have sent after-hours. Pretty easy to do, just click a box and the message of our choice goes out automatically until you are ‘back.’ Not something that a person has to type up & send - that would be quite counter-productive!
Yes, but I find the 24/7 business model to be peculiarly American.
BC is a small British saddle manufacturer. As such they may do business a little differently. I’m sure they don’t feel 100% in control of all of their reps all the time. But this isn’t a business that’s comparable to, say, a vet practice or boarding barn where things really do need to be 24/7.
I am sure they will want to know if one of their reps or saddles has disappointed the OP and make it right.
The original emails & 1st set of photos were sent Wednesday. Additional emails with fit photos were sent Thursday and Friday. Yes they had “read receipts”.
No one has responded in any way. I have not received any indication that anyone is looking into it. I called Bob again on Friday to find out what the response was and he did not return my call or answer my emails.
I think expecting a response of some kind from the REP who sold me the saddle by Friday is reasonable. If only to say, I’m looking into it.
[QUOTE=BadEventer;5377032]
The original emails & 1st set of photos were sent Wednesday. Additional emails with fit photos were sent Thursday and Friday. Yes they had “read receipts”.
No one has responded in any way. I have not received any indication that anyone is looking into it. I called Bob again on Friday to find out what the response was and he did not return my call or answer my emails.
I think expecting a response of some kind from the REP who sold me the saddle by Friday is reasonable. If only to say, I’m looking into it.[/QUOTE]
I agree that you should have heard back from the REP by now… that’s very bad customer service. My point was for BC’s “corporate” office.
I am sorry to hear this happened to you.
I wanted to ask, Do you have any reason to think this is a counterfit saddle?
There are some who take a model of saddle and switch the metal name tags with the Company Name of one saddlery and put it in another saddle. I ran in to this in Antique Old Name Sidesaddles from England. Someone had taken an obviously inferior copy of a Famous Old Name Company and put the metal name plate from the “Real” company on it. I knew right off it was not the real company saddle.
Also a real saddler can make a saddle fit by reflocking it if he is worth his salt. Of course if the original tree in the saddle is way too narrow or way to wide it can be a problem. But if it is reasonably close it can be done.
For $125. for a farm visit ? I ought to get that much… I wonder about that much for a fitting check and reflocking?
I have heard so many problems very similar to yours in the last few months.
I would take photos and send them to the Black Country company and ask them if this is one of their saddles.
The photos you listed do not look like the quality this company usually produces.
Wish you the best in getting this settled.
Kindest regards, sadlmakr
[QUOTE=sadlmakr;5377155]
I wanted to ask, Do you have any reason to think this is a counterfit saddle? … sadlmakr[/QUOTE]
It’s rather unlikely that it is a counterfeit. It has all the appropriate markings, stamps & tags. It has “Made in England” stamped into the leather as well as the Serial number which matches the Society of Master Saddlers hang tag."
Bob Cooper is also listed on their website as the only approved Black Country Rep for Texas & the surrounding 5 or 6 states. He IS the BC rep in Texas, and he is the one who sent me the saddle. I doubt he’s buying or building conterfeits.
As to the poor fit and reflocking it to adjust fit.
The problem is the billets are attached in an “un-anatomical” fashion. They point forward instead of down. Because this is a monoflap correcting that is a matter of redoing the ENTIRE flap as well as the billets because the flap has “channels” for the billets to lie in.
I know exactly where the mistake was made in the construction. I have a very long upper leg, and requested a more forward flap to accomodate my freakishly long thighs. When they moved the flap forward they actually “tilted” the flap forward along with the billets, instead of moving the flap forward and keeping the billets in a more normal position.
This means on the horse I ordered the saddle for, the billets point forward at an extreme angle. When the girth is attached it lifts the back of the saddle off of her back. This really is simple physics. If you compare the saddle I received to the photo of the Event saddle on Bob’s website the difference is very obvious.
My horse is somewhat downhill where the saddle sits. This also means if I put the saddle on any other horse, the front of the saddle is even higher & the billets are even MORE of a problem because they point towards their nose. The incorrect attachment of the billets has made this saddle essentially unusable on ANY horse, not just the one it was supposed to be made for.
And yes I know a downhill horse is more difficult to fit. Bob assured me repeatedly that she actually had a typical back, and it would be no problem for BC to fit her. He said most every horse back he’d seen in England looked like her. (She was recently imported from Ireland.) And since BC is in England he assured me that they would have no problem making a saddle fit.
Between the poor workmanship, and unusable fit, I believe a full refund is in order. There were many many chances to catch these mistakes, and no one in the entire chain of construction & possession (makers, shipper, rep) bothered to notice or inform me there was a problem.
I waited 5 weeks for an unusable saddle. I still can’t jump my horse. I’m losing training time every day. I’m not sending in show entries because of this. I am “invested” in this purchase in more ways than financially. I don’t think being impatient about a response is unwarranted.
[QUOTE=goodmorning;5376921]
I thought that the FB message was also posted 4-days ago…QUOTE]
No I just posted the FB message today.
I kind of considered that a “last resort”. When I spoke with Bob on Wednesday he said he would forward the photos to England. I emailed them immediately.
I did expect a response from Bob of some kind by Thursday or Friday… “looking into it” “they were shocked” “someone is getting fired”…something.
But it seemed to have just gone into the void. I called on Friday and he did not respond via phone or email.
Thursday I emailed about a return policy. Still no response.
And I have been religiously checking my “spam filter” just in case!
No I didn’t expect BC to contact me directly, but I thought they would respond to their Rep asap, and I have no information so I don’t know if they did or not.
I have had problems with a saddle goods supplier in England not replying to my emails so I printed them all off and mailed them to them. They claimed they never received them at all. I never got them returned so I wonder where they went.
I finally got my goods I had ordered and paid for, after weeks of silence on their part. So do not give up. You might have to mail hardcopies to them as well.
If there is still not reply, you might have to get legal advice and go ahead from there.
Even with a long flap there is no reason to place the billets that far back in the saddle. I prefer the ones with the point billet and the floating D on the back billet. That set up seems to work on almost all horses.
Please let us know if and when you get a reply from them.
I am interested in their reasoning on this saddle.
Kind regards, sadlmakr
Have you tried calling from different numbers so he doesn’t know it’s you? Or have someone call and leave a message saying they want a new saddle and when he calls back they can hand the phone to you 
Also, if you dial *67 before you dial his number it should block caller id and you should show up as a private number.
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