I hope the cheering shakes the whole place.
[QUOTE=Ambrey;3409672]
It says nothing about dressage as a sport, just that racism and barriers arenât always something one can see, but often exist kind of invisibly and subtly.
The reason blacks canât be racist under that definition (which is just an excerpt from a book) is that in our society in the US, the power balance lies with whites. So although a black person could refuse to hire a white person for a job, black people as a whole cannot prevent white people as a whole from improving their living standards. So individual acts of prejudice or hate by minorities donât have the same societal effect. Since societal effect is the focus of the study, the definition is reserved for acts by the race/ethnicity in power (and it exists to varying extents in most cultures).
Iâd be happy to discuss it further in PM, the entire subject makes people very uncomfortable (sociologists love to do that!). Iâm just pointing out that when you hear people say things like âblacks canât be racist,â they are simply using a definition of racism that differs quite significantly from the definition most people use.[/QUOTE]
So if someone is in power, that must mean he is not black? I guess this Brazilian rider is not black then. Neither are any basketball players. :lol: Sociologists are trying to redefine words for political purposes, but two can play that game.
The only real barrier to equestrian sports is money. If you think that is a racial barrier, then you have never been a poor or middle class white person!
A side question: why is color diversity of the riders celebrated, but breed diversity of the horses loathed? I think we still have a long way to come.
I feel sorry for you.
Idiot.
LOL, no, as I said the word refers to a society, not a person.
Itâs kind of hard to visualize, but think of the entity being described as the american people as a whole- try not to think of individuals, but the culture as a whole and the internal workings that make it the way it is.
Trying to apply the concept to individuals is like trying to define an engine as being any one of its parts- a piston doesnât make a car move, but when you put it with the rest of the parts and feed it gas, it works a certain way and power output is the result. The same goes for sociology- any one person is only a small part of society.
Remind me never to become a sociology professor, Iâm not much for explaining these things 
It doesnât seem so difficult, or deep, to me. - Just a story of a stable hand, worked hard, made it to the top, 'cept he is black. Good for him, or anybody who has a lot to overcome. End of story. Perhaps Iâm just shallow.
I think you have it right. The opinions of sociologists are probably not primary on his mind this month. And hopefully they wonât be on our minds when we watch him ride 
I always wonder how Hooters gets away with hiring women strictly on their size and firmness of their boobs. That one always puzzled me.
The law has specific outs for âentertainment.â Not horse related, but I think hooters has the same immunity as, say, a movie producer, as they are selling something more than just chicken wings I think this has already been argued in court.
And of course, hiring decisions can be made based on anything except protected groups- gender, age, race, etc. Boob size isnât in there. Itâs legal, for example, to hire only attractive people, thin people, etc.
As for whether the illegality of discrimination makes it not happen- unless you can prove that someone didnât hire you due to your race, age, or gender youâre out of luck. They basically need to admit it before anything can be done about it. If they just say âI didnât think heâd fit with the company cultureâ they are in the clear.
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3410545]
I always wonder how Hooters gets away with hiring women strictly on their size and firmness of their boobs. That one always puzzled me.[/QUOTE]
Hooters has been sued by men before for not hiring them, btw. Settled before trial.
The 1964 civil rights act applies to all races and sexes, etc, and btw, the sexual discrimination clauses were added as a âjokeâ by congress. Turned out to bite some people in the rump, altho congressmen excluded themselves from the civil rights act, saying âelectedâ officials were exempt.
Meanwhile, I hope the best persons and best horses win medals in the Olympics, no matter what breed they are. Most of us would be considered âgradeâ horses anyway.
Hey, could have been worse
[QUOTE=DownYonder;3410049]
Good Lord, I had no idea my post would cause such a debate!
Whatever oneâs feelings about âracismâ (and its definition), I think this young manâs story is quite newsworthy. Kudos to him, and also to his employer for recognizing his talent and giving him the opportunity to grow far beyond his âstable handâ role. I wish him super good luck at the Olympics![/QUOTE]
You could have posted a thread about a minority Natural Horsemanship rider going to the Olympics. :lol::lol::lol: Just kidding before everyone jumps on this one.
Down Yonder -
I wasnât offended at all.
Iâm with SLC on this thread. Money and bad attitudes abound in dressage. You have to develop a pretty think skin to go out and do this in publicâŠor be happy studying and going to clinics and riding for your own pleasure the development of your horse.
Seriously, it takes mean girls to a whole new level. In fact, anyone who wants to help, we can write the book.
Donna Ray
dray429@gmail.com
seriouslyâŠhorse books are en vogueâŠ
ask Jilly Cooper if sheâd like to partner up with you!!!
Donna, itâs so funny- I havenât met any of these people IRL, but I was watching the reality show âQueen Beesâ with my daughter the other day and was thinking about how much of the exact same stuff goes on in the horsie internet world.
Someone was telling me that one board had to make a special sub-board just for people to b%tch and gossip about the show scene because it always got ugly.
The book the show is based on is called âQueen Bees and Wannabes.â Maybe the horse world book could be âAlpha mares and their herds.â
I think itâs cool because he is so good & rose through the ranks quickly, but I have to side with those who donât see the relavence of what color his skin is. Itâs kind of odd to be pointing that one trait out as the most important thing. Riding serious dressage takes money. Itâs like announcing âWow! a black person has enough money to get into competive ridingâ.
If weâre going to theorize about âthose that Dressage excludesâ we start down the slippery slope of Dressage not liking off-breed horses, overweight riders, or whatever other atypical trait a rider might have. It turns into âI didnât win because the judges didnât like my horseâs breedâ or âI didnât win because I looked a certain wayâ.
The general topics of raceâand hootersâgo beyond the scope of this horse-related forum. Youâre welcome to discuss racial issues as they relate/if they relate to horse sports and the OP of this thread.
Thanks,
Mod 1
[QUOTE=MayS;3411341]
I think itâs cool because he is so good & rose through the ranks quickly, but I have to side with those who donât see the relavence of what color his skin is. Itâs kind of odd to be pointing that one trait out as the most important thing. Riding serious dressage takes money. Itâs like announcing âWow! a black person has enough money to get into competive ridingâ.[/QUOTE]
I think the most amazing thing with this young man is that he rose through the ranks so quickly despite that fact that he came from no money at all. To me, his success is amazing because of the circumstances of his birth (family of poor farm laborers) more than the color of his skin. I will certainly be rooting for him.
I would like you to provide specific examples of how dressage is applied as a âracistâ sport? It may be financially unachievable for people of MANY different racesâincluding lower income caucasians, but dressage itself is not a racist sport. Nor is eventing or showjumping or hunters. Shows are naturally filled by those with the most drive to do it that also have the money to back it up. That could be someone of ANY race and I have never seen anything in a prizelist that said only whites could apply. So anyone with the cash in hand can plop down their money, get their scores and qualify for whateverâŠthey canât be kicked out of championships for being another color, etc.
If youâre going to use the term racist, at least try to understand what it means. While people of different classes may be kept out of equestrian sports because of financial constraints, there is nothing that says anyone who can pay canât play.
And just because you may run into a couple of racist individuals at equestrian events, doesnât mean everyone is like that and blaming the sport as a whole is beyond uneducated.
give me a break!
[QUOTE=CosmosMariner;3409858]
The barrier or divide certainly exists. Next time you are at a show take note on how many riders of color there are. Not many.
Whatever the reason I am glad to see them here. I am glad he made it and can show a whole generation that they belong.
I have two very good friends both african american who show. One is male and the other female. BOTH are constantly asked if they are grooms or stable hands. I have witnessed this. The man has actually had someone hand their horse off to him to walk it out. He graciously said âNo, I cannot walk your horse I need to ride in the next classâ.
I too only have a handful of non-caucasion students. IMO diversity is a wonderful thing.[/QUOTE]
Not to offend any of you bleeding hearts, but it has to do with MONEY, folks. The majority of white people canât afford to horse show at the upper levels either. Including ME. I think the horse show industry, regardless of discipline, seems racist simply because it is so financially prohibitive.
I would suggest that when a rider tosses an African-American rider her reins, she is saying to him, âYou do NOT belong here - except as a groomâ. IT IS racist to toss your reins to an African American person as if they are your servant, and couldnât ever be anything else.
Most likely when this was done to the rider mentioned (and it was done more than once, by the way), that was the message.
Keep in mind no one tosses their reins to an unknown person - under normal circumstances.
Also, I have to say, that commenting on there being too many black people around the tack shop, that hispanics are too stupid to do dressage, and that all blacks stink - yeah, I would consider that to be racist remarks. I would also consider it racist when someone has two equally eager, energetic applicants for an apprentice rider, two equally inexperienced girls, and chooses the white girl, and says, âI just donât think the other girl will be reliable or be able to learn to ride very wellâŠYOU knowâŠâ yeah, iâd call that racist.
It is not just about money. You need to look at the statistics for African-American salaries in the United States -
itâs quite racist, by the way, to assume there are so few African-Americans making a selary capable of supporting a riding hobby.
