Bleeding quarter crack

[jennycash]

Long story short, I moved about a year ago and hired a farrier that everyone recommended. After a few months I noticed my horse becoming tender footed and every shoe job his angles were quite different and drastic. After being confronted about the quality I found out he moved my horse from a size 1 to a double 00 and he cut off all heel and let his toe go. After a vet visit and new recommendation for corrective shoeing I found this new farrier. He has done my horse 4 times now. (Now I’m paranoid and stay to question every little thing) He has told me he needs to keep pulling the shoe back and roll the toe so he can get some heel support. I keep him on a strict 6 week schedule. He is back to a size 1 with a lot of shaping and extra shoe left. It is now week 5 and I noticed while turned out there was blood on his hoof. Sure enough there is a quarter crack that was bleeding. I immediately called the farrier, due to holidays he is out of town and won’t be back for a few days.

Has anyone seen a crack bleed? I have never dealt this quarter cracks before. Would it be because of the drastic changes? Opinions on the pictures?

This move has been such a nightmare for my poor horse.

[CrowneDragon]

Yeah that’s not good. I would keep your horse semi-confined until that crack gets stabilized, and it may not a bad idea to keep a bandage over it to keep dirt and debris from getting down in there. You may want to get your vet involved in this as well, since you have damaged sensitive tissue.
His hairline is weird. Sometimes you see jamming (upward bulging) of the coronet when you have a quarter crack and your horse does show some of that, but his hairline is also just irregular; up and down (sometimes just the hair getting rubbed to different lengths can give that impression, and it is hard to tell from the photos if that might be the case). He also has a sprung shoe?

I’m sorry this happened over the holiday; horses have impeccable timing. I hope you can get it looked at soon.

[stb]

I agree with CrowneDragon. There’s some really weird stuff going on in that hoof. I would definitely want my vet to take a look at it.

[AKB]

I would have a vet look at him. The hoof rings and shape of the coronary band make me wonder if he has chronic laminitis, as well as whatever is causing the hoof crack. His hoof quality does not look normal. Is there a vet hospital with a hospital farrier near you? It is nice to go to a hospital with one stop shopping so the vet/lameness specialist and farrier can consult easily.

[2enduraceriders]

Oh my god, that is an absolutely terrible shoe job!!!
He is dubbing off all the toe. He is removing the hoof wall. The hoof is not even. The shoe is not flat. Under no condition should there be a gap in the heels.

Your horse is developing the quarter crack in response to the uneven stress from the terrible shoe job. Your poor guy also abscessed from a hot nail.

I cannot express enough horror at the shoe job. I have followed behind some bad shoers but yours in right up there as about the worst!!! Get anyone else before this horrible hoof hacker literally kills your horse.

If he were my horse or a rescued horse I would give him a tetanus booster.

ETA: What the other posters are seeing as “problems” with the hoof. coronary band, or shape and quality of the hoof is all because of the hideous shoe job and unnatural torque from incorrect balance not because your horse has bad hoofs. In fact his hoof is great to work with until the idiot removed most of it!!!

[walkinthewalk]

While I would get busy finding myself a new farrier, he is not the reason for a bleeding crack at the coronary band; at least not during the trimming/shoeing process.

Ditto others to start dialing the vet promptly at 7:59 AM Monday morning and get him (and his x-ray equipment) to the horse. Do not Pass Go and Collect $200, have the vet look at that horse “yesterday”.

That saying “no hoof no horse” really is true:(

Farriers are cautioned to always be politically correct and never tell the owner when they see something wrong. However, if your farrier has never mentioned getting this coronary band crack looked at by a vet, shame on him.

He really does need fired for a few reasons.

Good luck re-habbing this horse and it goes without saying this horse is not ridable until whatever is wrong with that hoof is completely healed.

[sascha]

Wow, your previous farrier did a hell of a job to get that foot so squished in and under run.

Yes, I have had a horse severely screwed up by shitty shoeing (horse was not under my care at the time) and he ended up with very nasty quarter cracks (bleeding) in both front feet. It takes a LONG time to remodel that kind of mess into something vaguely resembling what the horse’s natural foot should/used to look like.

Get the best dang farrier you can find. Get that crack wired or stapled. And, omg, I feel for you.

fwiw, I am NOT a farrier by any means, but it looks to my eye like your current farrier may be on the right track, but has maybe made changes a bit quickly. Take that fwiw, 0$

Oh, and get thee some very long pull on bell boots. I’m not sure there’s anything more heartbreaking than watching a horse pull off a shoe when the foot is in that sort of condition, and it is likely to happen given that the shoe needs to overhang a bit.

[Ghazzu]

I don’t think the quarter crack was present previously.

And yes, it’s time for a new farrier.

[Pippigirl]

Do you have any pics of his feet before you guys moved? Do the other three hooves have similar hoof angles?

In one photo posted, the way he’s weighting his foot on the toe looks to me like it’s creating unnatural stress in the hoof wall causing those stress lines in the hoof wall and the quarter crack.

I’m wondering if the gap between the shoe and hoof wall at the heels/quarter area is mean to provide stress relief on the crack?

[jennycash]

This breaks my heart every response I read.

Unfortunately this is who the vet recommends. As soon as Monday rolls around I will call for an x-ray appointment.

I called the shoer this morning about some of the points that were brought up in the replies. As for the gap, he said he left space so the heel could expand. That the last farrier had completely crushed and cut off all heel, so he wants increased movement and blood flow.

I brought up the drastic toe. He said again because the heels were crushed he has to pull the shoe back and create a quick break over point.

Today I will completely clip around the hairline so I can get better and more accurate photos.

Thank you all so much. This is so disappointing. What makes is 10x worse is that all this is manmade.

[CrowneDragon]

[QUOTE=jennycash;7927348]

I called the shoer this morning about some of the points that were brought up in the replies. As for the gap, he said he left space so the heel could expand.
Thank you all so much. This is so disappointing. What makes is 10x worse is that all this is manmade.[/QUOTE]

I actually wondered if he had intentionally floated the heels to help with the jamming. It is very hard for anyone to say if this is a good job or bad job without knowing what the starting material was. I don’t mind the angle (he looks to have good hoof-pastern alignment) or the dubbed toe, and it looks like his frog is stretched forward from your previous farrier letting his foot run out in front of him, which the current guy is trying to address. I wish the shoe was fit a bit fuller and longer in the heel, but this is not always feasible.
Good luck with your boy.

[2enduraceriders]

When you look at the hoof and the coronary band the band protrudes directly above where the horse has no heel support. This is the direct cause of the quarter crack!

If this is the quality of trimming that is acceptable to your veterinarian it is a waste of time taking the horse to that veterinarian.

Your horse now needs properly applied eggbars to regain support and to stop the quarter crack from spreading and causing a permanent lameness.

I would suggests spending the time and money others have suggested to find a AFA certified journeyman farrier and if needed haul you horse to him/her.

Of course it is your horse and you can discount 35+ years of corrective trimming and shoeing from a certified farrier and go with whatever suggestions you like the sound of.

[2enduraceriders]

<<< As for the gap, he said he left space so the heel could expand. >>>
Well, run this comment by any farrier/veterinarian that understands the mechanics of hoof expansion and they will tell you this guy is a compere idiot!
This comment alone should tell you to run! What he did is the cause your horse problems and shortly your guy will be permanently lame when the crack increases in size and his hoof then moves in two different directions every time he takes a step.

If you need other knowledgeable people to tell you the same thing post the picture of the shoe job/crack on the AFA web site and ask for thoughts.

[2enduraceriders]

Try posting the picture here:
http://www.americanfarriers.com/pages/forum/Forum.php

[Ghazzu]

[QUOTE=2enduraceriders;7927376]
<<< As for the gap, he said he left space so the heel could expand. >>>
Well, run this comment by any farrier/veterinarian that understands the mechanics of hoof expansion and they will tell you this guy is a compere idiot!
This comment alone should tell you to run! What he did is the cause your horse problems and shortly your guy will be permanently lame when the crack increases in size and his hoof then moves in two different directions every time he takes a step.

If you need other knowledgeable people to tell you the same thing post the picture of the shoe job/crack on the AFA web site and ask for thoughts.[/QUOTE]

If that was the intention, wouldn’t you want the heels fit fuller, looking at the sole view?

[CrowneDragon]

@2enduraceriders;7927369

When you look at the hoof and the coronary band the band protrudes directly above where the horse has no heel support. This is the direct cause of the quarter crack!

[QUOTE=2enduraceriders;7927376]<<< As for the gap, he said he left space so the heel could expand. >>>
Well, run this comment by any farrier/veterinarian that understands the mechanics of hoof expansion and they will tell you this guy is a compere idiot!
This comment alone should tell you to run! What he did is the cause your horse problems and shortly your guy will be permanently lame when the crack increases in size and his hoof then moves in two different directions every time he takes a step.
[/QUOTE]
No.
Floating the heels is a well-accepted method for unloading pressure in the area above it, the exact opposite of what your propose. It is also the standard go-to to treat an issue like this quarter crack. My ass-umption is that the farrier recognized this coronet jamming and floated the heels to help unload that area. I am not sure if there is something lost in translation regarding what “expanding the heels” means here. I have seen some farriers float heels to help with contraction as well, but less commonly.

Some reading for you:

Minimally, to allow the coronary band to drop into its regular straight orientation, Morrison will apply a heart bar shoe, which increases the load bearing surface of the foot, and will float the bottom of the affected quarter of the hoof. This floating creates a gap between the hoof and the shoe, which unloads the crack and provides room for the hoof wall and coronary band to drop down into a more normal position.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/resolving-quarter-cracks-takes-more-just-stitch-time

http://www.roodandriddle.com/hoofcapsuledistortion.html
http://www.kerckhaert.com/Images/Downloads/naturalangle/Natural%20Angle%20Vol8%20Iss4.pdf
http://www.americanfarriers.com/pages/Features-Different-Ideas-On-Treating-Quarter-And-Bar-Cracks.php

[beowulf]

Without seeing what the farrier was working with before, I am reluctant to blame the current farrier for the crack. I am not a farrier and am far from an expert, but I agree with CrowneDragon regarding the floating the heel, it seemed like the right thing to do here.

I would have a rational discussion with your farrier, and involve your vet. I also noted the fever rings… which makes me think the past farrier was much worse than the pictures suggest, and agree with the poster to who said it may be possible he has some unresolved laminitis. The hoof rings, bulging hoof wall and quality, all seem like there is some underlying issue that hasn’t been found yet.

Best of luck - I would not write off your current farrier just yet. Don’t agree that he is responsible for the crack, as it looks like that was a long time brewing from the pictures alone.

[sunhawk]

The problem with floating the heels the way it has been done here, is that the pressure goes directly up the hoof wall to where the crack is, and if you look at the quarters a little more intently, you see how the hairline is pushed up exactly from that pressure. The heels are too high, the better way to relieve pressure from the heels and quarters would be to take the heels low enough to get the frog back down on the ground, restore proper frog function, possibly with pads and frog support added in. With the heel support at the back of the foot under the heel bulbs where it belongs the hair line will start to drop back to where it belongs.

[gumshoe]

This. How can anyone say that the current farrier has to go when we have no idea what that foot looked like prior to the current farrier working on it?

[QUOTE=CrowneDragon;7927359]
It is very hard for anyone to say if this is a good job or bad job without knowing what the starting material was. [/QUOTE]

[2enduraceriders]

[QUOTE=gumshoe;7927502]
This. How can anyone say that the current farrier has to go when we have no idea what that foot looked like prior to the current farrier working on it?[/QUOTE]

Very very easily! Because I can add and multiply. <<<He has done my horse 4 times now. … I keep him on a strict 6 week schedule.>>>

That is over 5 months. Long enough to regrow a whole heel twice over and 3/4 of even a long toe.