Boarder won't pay horse dentist!

[BeeHoney]

Thanks for the update.

Yes, people do all kinds of weird things to avoid payment–I could tell you a list of what I’ve seen clients do, various “innocent” types of bad checks, reporting cards stolen immediately after giving the number, etc. but that’s for another thread. Take home point: giving false/incomplete payment info is a huge red flag.

If I were in your shoes, I would collect the check for Feb board, confirm with your bank that it is good (this can take an annoying period of time) and then give notice. If there is a delay in board payment, I would give notice as soon as it is late. It’s better to get a horse moved quickly when there is a payment issue, versus the horse continuing to run up bills at your place that might also go unpaid.

You don’t need “cause” to give a boarder notice, you can give a boarder notice for any reason. It’s extremely reasonable to let a boarder go due to drama/concerns regarding payment. Typically there’s an obvious issue which can be politely referenced as, “I’m sorry, I just don’t feel like this has been a good fit,” and I think this is one of those situations.

Notice periods are usually written into boarding contracts so that both BMs and clients can plan for normal transitions, but they don’t give a non-paying client the right to stay out an unpaid 30 days. If you aren’t getting paid, you have every right to ask a horse to be moved immediately (with the expectation that it might take longer than that for it to actually happen).

[Djones]

[JSocks]

Sure, but my comment was for the OP. The one with the small barn.

ETA: OP I would just ask her to leave once February’s board clears the bank.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

ALL the vet’s emails and texts mysteriously getting sent to spam/not making it to her? Not having any credit card on her? “Forgetting” to give the security code?

Yesh, it’s one thing if she had said she was sorry and didn’t have the money, but this song-and-dance…

[Bluey]

You can’t forget any part of the application with a credit card.
The programs won’t go thru and will show in red what part you forgot to fill.

[OverandOnward]

@Merlin_the_Mule

She went on about that texts and the email must have gone into spam folder etc.

@Impractical_Horsewoman

Yesh, it’s one thing if she had said she was sorry and didn’t have the money, but this song-and-dance…

Maybe next time she’ll pull out ye olde “someone hacked my email / text” etc.

Even if she spoke truth, it does not matter.

Because: She knows she owes. That should be all that is necessary for her to get the ball rolling.

But she seems to have done nothing pro-active to handle that fact. In fact, quite the opposite.

Life troubles or not, this isn’t the way people behave when they have forthright intentions of settling their bills.

“I told her I didn’t do business this way and she had to clear it up.” That’s all the information that she needs from your side, OP – and she shouldn’t need even that.

Good for you, OP, for your wisely considered efforts on everyone’s behalf. You are going above & beyond, IMO. The vet/dentist & wife now at least have first-hand assurance that you are going extra steps on their behalf. That should be worth something for their continued goodwill toward you & your barn.

If you needed some affirmation and a pat on the back with an “attagirl”, I hope you feel that you have rec’d that from this thread.

[OverandOnward]

@BeeHoney

Typically there’s an obvious issue which can be politely referenced as, “I’m sorry, I just don’t feel like this has been a good fit,” and I think this is one of those situations.

This. And you don’t have to elaborate on why it hasn’t been a good fit. All that does is open the door to argumentation. Better to just pronounce it so, and firmly move on to asking her to leave.

OP, it’s your board business. You don’t owe space to anyone. When you decide it’s time for them to go, that’s all that is needed. Even if there isn’t a terminate-at-will clause in your board contract.

The time for any boarder to go is whenever you say so. That is all the justification that you need.

Another option is my barn manager friend’s go-to “We are unable to continue to meet your needs. Your horse and your belongings must be moved out on or before [date]. If you need transport assistance for your horse, we can provide trailering to a new location for [amount] per mile both ways. In any case, if you have not moved your horse by the end of day on [date], the following morning we will move your horse to [rescue or other site] where you may make arrangements for further transport directly with another transportation option.”

If they don’t move their horse on their on, she trailers the horse, along with boarder’s stuff, elsewhere to make sure that the boarder is out. Never to be seen again on the property.

[OverandOnward]

Many years ago on COTH, an aggrieved horse owner shared that her board barn was terminating their services to her and requiring that she move her horse, over a disagreement with the BM’s (a couple) about arena usage.

After laying out her peceived injustices at length re using the arena (she was insisting that the BM’s resurface it, if I remember correctly), I was 100% on the side of the BM’s.

The BM’s were very clear with this boarder: the arena stays as is. The BM’s could have allowed the boarder to decide about staying on a take-it-or-leave-it basis. But they didn’t. They felt that the boarder was a source of conflict and agitation. What would she think to demand next? So they just told her to git, in so many words (a self-explanatory southern term). Along with formal written notice, of course.

The point is that, as a BM, you don’t need a particular reason to keep a boarder that is a source of concern to you. In the present, or in the future. It’s your barn, your business, your discretion, as to who stays and who goes. Feel free to do what’s best for your own peace of mind.

Also, assuming you get her out, the next time you have a whole-barn vet service call, you can tell the vet “she doesn’t board here anymore”.

[Ajierene]

@Merlin_the_Mule

She said she hadn’t gotten texts and emails, since her first contact where she had told them she was going to do payments of $100 dollars (first I had heard of this!). I knew she had given the dentist’s wife the cc number without the security code. She went on about that texts and the email must have gone into spam folder etc. She didn’t have her credit card with her so couldn’t do that right then.

Sounded like a lot of excuses.

I told her I didn’t do business this w

Just as a point of reference. My friend’s vet was out to do shots and she asked if I wanted my horse to have her annual shots at the same time. I said yes and the agreement was I would pay the vet directly. I contacted the vet. They said I have to sign some paperwork first, which I did and emailed back.

I have not heard from them since. It’s been 10 months. A comment here had me wondering if some email went to spam but that email deletes spam after 30 days so no idea.

Now, in my case, my friend never said anything, vet’s office has not contacted. I remember at odd times (like now, when I’m at work) so never get around to calling to follow up and frankly, it isn’t my problem if they don’t want to send me a bill - I followed up a bit after sending the paperwork in but that was last summer.

So, anyway…I do not necessarily not believe the horse owner as I know I have also had random emails go to spam or just not even get to me. It should be easy for the dentist to show proof of communication if that were the case but since an earlier post stated the dentists wife/the office staff did not notice this unpaid bill for a few weeks, I consider it possible the office is in part to blame.

I am not saying people should not pay their bills but neither should they have to chase down a business to pay the bills.

Add in mental health and personal hardships, it can lower where on the list of priorities chasing down a business is.

[Bogie]

Not at all a defense of the late payment of bills, but my retired horse had a medical treatment a couple of months ago. The vet billed me directly. It went into my spam folder and as I didn’t know the name of the practice, I didn’t find it. When I hadn’t heard from them, I contacted the retirement barn and asked her if the treatment has taken place and for the name of the vet. So, things do go to spam, but if you know the bill is out there, it is on you to figure out how to pay it.

[OverandOnward]

@Bogie

Not at all a defense of the late payment of bills, but my retired horse had a medical treatment a couple of months ago. The vet billed me directly. It went into my spam folder and as I didn’t know the name of the practice, I didn’t find it. When I hadn’t heard from them, I contacted the retirement barn and asked her if the treatment has taken place and for the name of the vet. So, things do go to spam, but if you know the bill is out there, it is on you to figure out how to pay it.

This I love.

@Ajierene

I am not saying people should not pay their bills but neither should they have to chase down a business to pay the bills.

Add in mental health and personal hardships, it can lower where on the list of priorities chasing down a business is.

This I don’t love.

It isn’t chasing to call a business, ask what you owe, and pay over the phone, or by check, etc.

Also chasing isn’t remotely what this HO is doing. The business is chasing her, through multiple channels, including personal contact with a go-between who will see her in person (OP). Who is going above and beyond to help.

[Ajierene]

@OverandOnward

Also chasing isn’t remotely what this HO is doing. The business is chasing her, through multiple channels, including personal contact with a go-between who will see her in person (OP). Who is going above and beyond to help.

I went back to confirm my information and I think part of the discord is the conflicting information in posts:

@Merlin_the_Mule

The denist’s wife, who keeps the books, called me the next week and said that she was having trouble getting the boarder to respond.

@Merlin_the_Mule

The wife had been away for several weeks and when she returned, she realized there was no payment by the HO, they contacted me and we agreed that they would try one last time to contact her by text and, this time, by email.

@Merlin_the_Mule

She said she hadn’t gotten texts and emails, since her first contact where she had told them she was going to do payments of $100 dollars (first I had heard of this!). I knew she had given the dentist’s wife the cc number without the security code. She went on about that texts and the email must have gone into spam folder etc. She didn’t have her credit card with her so couldn’t do that right then.

So, first it is stated that the dentist’s wife called the next week after the appointment with issues, then that the dentist’s wife had returned after a few weeks to see the bill wasn’t paid. Finally, the horse owner stated she had not received communications after an apparent initial contact but this was not confirmed. How did the dentist office apparently get a credit card number without the CVV? Did the horse owner hang up on the business or did the business not ask for it?

So, was the dentist office chasing the horse owner down? Was there clear communication? The entire situation seems wrought with communication issues that are compounding the issue that the barn owner finds herself in the middle of.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@Merlin_the_Mule

The dentist did the work and left a bill/evaluation form. The bill was $300. But she never paid him.

The denist’s wife, who keeps the books, called me the next week and said that she was having trouble getting the boarder to respond. She did talk to her but she said it was too much and she didn’t have the money. After that she refused to answer their phone calls.

I agree 100% that it’s very annoying when businesses don’t send bills until they are overdue or make it difficult for you to pay them (broken links, only accepting paper checks) but that’s not what’s going on here. The boarder knows she is owed $300, said it was too much at first, and has been contacted both by phone and by email (I can buy one method of communication failing, but two is unlikely).

[OverandOnward]

@Ajierene

The entire situation seems wrought with communication issues that are compounding the issue that the barn owner finds herself in the middle of.

Only if one is not expecting responsible adult behavior, from an adult.

Not terribly long ago, I knew a $250 vet service was done for my horse at the barn while I wasn’t there. Invoice was emailed to me. For whatever reason I didn’t see/find it. Called the vet office. Paid over the phone. Done.

[avjudge]

@Ajierene

So, first it is stated that the dentist’s wife called the next week after the appointment with issues, then that the dentist’s wife had returned after a few weeks to see the bill wasn’t paid. Finally, the horse owner stated she had not received communications after an apparent initial contact but this was not confirmed. How did the dentist office apparently get a credit card number without the CVV? Did the horse owner hang up on the business or did the business not ask for it?

My understanding is there was an initial contact by the dentist which may be when HO gave the incomplete CC info. Then more attempts to contact the HO which did not connect. Then the dentist’s wife was away for a while, and when she came back found things were still unpaid. That’s when they reached out to the OP.

I didn’t read that carefully so the above is ballpark.

[Ajierene]

@avjudge

My understanding is there was an initial contact by the dentist which may be when HO gave the incomplete CC info. Then more attempts to contact the HO which did not connect. Then the dentist’s wife was away for a while, and when she came back found things were still unpaid. That’s when they reached out to the OP.

I didn’t read that carefully so the above is ballpark.

You may be correct…I mean, I went back to confirm for a reason - I come here for leisure/entertainment and distraction from work so between all of those and various posts over days or weeks, things can get muddled.

It is a valid point that the dentist’s wife contacted her twice. I had thought once prior to this thread.

[OverandOnward]

I started with some mercy for HO because BO knew that HO wasn’t that knowledgeable when her horse moved in. Knowing that, any BO may intentionally, or unintentionally, but understandably, end up doing more handholding than with other boarders.

However … then things took a turn with HO apparently not following through on finding out more from the vet/dentist before the work was done. (We don’t seem to know for sure if a conversation about this happened.)

Afterward HO not following through to pay the bill. Or, at the least, discuss it, make a plan to honor it. Didn’t happen.

First red flag.

And then time goes by while HO continues to fail to reach out, to follow through, to take care of the bill. In some form or fashion.

Worse, when follow up happens from the vet/dentist side, instead of saying “this is what I can do about the bill”, now HO is doing and saying some things that are classic behavior by people who are dodging and ignoring an outstanding bill.

Red flag getting larger.

HO is doing / saying nothing that might signal a green flag coming forth in the end.

To me: This saga is not the behavior of a person struggling with life difficulties. Problems that in all fairness, many people do struggle with.

Rather, at this point, it has become the saga of someone who is not owning up to their situation, not working with others for a resolution.

And fwiw, showing some sad red flags for the future of this mare. This won’t be the last vet service that the mare will need that is a hit to the monthly budget. Whoever the owner is. What does it mean for the mare’s future with this owner? At the very least, the mare is likely to soon have to change her home – again. Not a 20 yo horse’s favorite thing to happen.

I get the feeling that OP / BO is an understanding person, to work with the situation for this long, and make her best efforts for everyone. Beyond what she is obligated to do. If HO had been more forthright from the beginning, HO would likely not be in this situation now. Where she is very likely about to be evicted. As much for her potential for future problems as for her behavior about this problem.

It didn’t have to end up like this. But it did – because of HO’s behavior, and for no other reason.

[Mouse_amp_Bay]

@OverandOnward

Not terribly long ago, I knew a $250 vet service was done for my horse at the barn while I wasn’t there. Invoice was emailed to me. For whatever reason I didn’t see/find it. Called the vet office. Paid over the phone. Done

Umm, exactly. Not that hard. You got a service, you pay for the service. If you can’t find the bill (yes, sometimes even snail mail goes missing), you call the provider and pay. Really honestly not that hard.

OP, I hope she understands and pays. If not, this is not a person I would want associated with me or my business.

[trubandloki]

@Ajierene

So, anyway…I do not necessarily not believe the horse owner as I know I have also had random emails go to spam or just not even get to me. It should be easy for the dentist to show proof of communication if that were the case but since an earlier post stated the dentists wife/the office staff did not notice this unpaid bill for a few weeks, I consider it possible the office is in part to blame.

I am not saying people should not pay their bills but neither should they have to chase down a business to pay the bills.

Add in mental health and personal hardships, it can lower where on the list of priorities chasing down a business is.

If they sent a bill and your email ate it, it is not the office’s fault.
Billing cycles are usually a month so the office noticing after a few weeks seems like they are right on top of things to me.

It is not OK to ignore your bills until the vet forgets about them. That is just rude (and lots of other words I can’t post on COTH).

@OverandOnward

It didn’t have to end up like this. But it did – because of HO’s behavior, and for no other reason.

I agree with this 100%

[Kyrabee]

@OverandOnward

Not terribly long ago, I knew a $250 vet service was done for my horse at the barn while I wasn’t there. Invoice was emailed to me. For whatever reason I didn’t see/find it. Called the vet office. Paid over the phone. Done

Me too. I had moved to a barn that had the vet out for a barn day. I kept waiting for a paper bill which after about a month had never shown up. Called the vet and paid the bill. Then it happened again when he was out for another horse and added on a look at my horse. This time I asked them how they bill. They email the invoice. They had my email wrong . They fixed that and no more repeats of invisible invoices. Whew.

If I could not afford a $300 vet bill, I seriously would be looking to rehome my horse. I couldn’t handle waiting for the next big bill ($1000+) to come or not giving the horse what she needs. She had been with me for 21 years but it is about her, not me. I also couldn’t stiff a service provider. They have to eat too.