Bob McDonald Banned from USEF through Safe Sport

[skydy]

@Mardi

USET has very high profile people on their board, and as trustees; Debbie is a member of their large Advisory Committee.
USET provides the support and funding for athletes in the high performance divisions, in partnership with USEF, and is funded by contributions.

USET will need to decide how they want to handle this. Release a statement ? Stay silent ?

Forgot to quote.:o

[netg]

So Debbie’s book seems to indicate she and Bob started a relationship when she was underage. Now they’re married years later and it seems ok. But the wording of the accusation with so little sounds like it could be as simple as someone shared her book.
I doubt that, but employers do not tell the world about why they fire someone as they can be sued for ruining reputations if they do. But we get a vague phrase which doesn’t tell us if he had sex with a 17 year old when he was 19, or used his position to coerce minors into sexual acts.

I am VERY in favor of cleaning up the sport. Particularly for anyone currently active who may be a danger to someone. But this isn’t being handled like an employer - it is a blast to the public with no details behind it, so we don’t really know what it means.

[OverandOnward]

@netg

I doubt that, but employers do not tell the world about why they fire someone as they can be sued for ruining reputations if they do. But we get a vague phrase which doesn’t tell us if he had sex with a 17 year old when he was 19, or used his position to coerce minors into sexual acts.

I am VERY in favor of cleaning up the sport. Particularly for anyone currently active who may be a danger to someone. But this isn’t being handled like an employer - it is a blast to the public with no details behind it, so we don’t really know what it means.

But isn’t that exactly how employers handle a firing as a result of serious breaches of expected behavior? You are contracting yourself, as you said employers do the same thing, they release someone with an even more innocuous statement than SS offered for Robert McDonald.

Do the specifics matter? Because specifics means someone will figure out the names. It’s enough that he’s banned for life. SS has already said that they don’t take this level of action for things like the 19 year old and the 17 year old.

[Tarlo_Farm]

@mvp

Why does it matter if the husband of the USET’s technical advisor is banned? Doesn’t Debbie MacDonald get to hold her job regardless of who she’s married to?

And if true, I feel so bad for her! And hope she isn’t married to him much longer.

[netg]

@OverandOnward

But isn’t that exactly how employers handle a firing as a result of serious breaches of expected behavior? You are contracting yourself, as you said employers do the same thing, they release someone with an even more innocuous statement than SS offered for Robert McDonald.

Do the specifics matter? Because specifics means someone will figure out the names. It’s enough that he’s banned for life. SS has already said that they don’t take this level of action for things like the 19 year old and the 17 year old.

An employer doesn’t say, “fired for sexual misconduct.” At least every company I’ve worked for, even for those of us who knew why someone was fired, will merely say, "so-and-so was let go for cause and is not eligible to return. " Not, “he was fired for sexual relationships with minors” or however it was phrased. That says, “he is guilty of some type of rape” and yet leaves it to our imaginations without actually telling us anything. There is a reason news articles refer to “alleged rapist” and “confessed killer” to avoid pretending they are the ones with authority to determine legal guilt. Safe sport is announcing guilt as if they were the judicial system, yet the information the public would have is not available. They should either ban without giving any info since they aren’t the judiciary, give enough details so we know what supposed crime IS, or stop hiding things.

Yes, clean things up. And the @$=%heads in power of too many sports have allowed too much abuse. But if you’re going to publicly announce the “conviction” you make, actually say what the accusation was. If you aren’t going to share that, just say lifetime ban and not eligible for reinstatement and you have the equivalent of an employer.

[skydy]

@netg

An employer doesn’t say, “fired for sexual misconduct.” At least every company I’ve worked for, even for those of us who knew why someone was fired, will merely say, "so-and-so was let go for cause and is not eligible to return. " Not, “he was fired for sexual relationships with minors” or however it was phrased. That says, “he is guilty of some type of rape” and yet leaves it to our imaginations without actually telling us anything. There is a reason news articles refer to “alleged rapist” and “confessed killer” to avoid pretending they are the ones with authority to determine legal guilt. Safe sport is announcing guilt as if they were the judicial system, yet the information the public would have is not available. They should either ban without giving any info since they aren’t the judiciary, give enough details so we know what supposed crime IS, or stop hiding things.

Yes, clean things up. And the @$=%heads in power of too many sports have allowed too much abuse. But if you’re going to publicly announce the “conviction” you make, actually say what the accusation was. If you aren’t going to share that, just say lifetime ban and not eligible for reinstatement and you have the equivalent of an employer.

The ejection from the club (USEF and an Hockey organization) was for sexual misconduct with a minor(s). How much more specific would you have them be?

Saying nothing would not help parents or young adults know why the person is banned and thus why they need to keep their children away from them. Adults that molest minors are usually very good liars.

There are pretty much two reasons for a lifetime ban. If people would read the Safe Sport literature, we wouldn’t be having this conversation again and again.

[LexInVA]

@netg

So Debbie’s book seems to indicate she and Bob started a relationship when she was underage. Now they’re married years later and it seems ok. But the wording of the accusation with so little sounds like it could be as simple as someone shared her book.
I doubt that, but employers do not tell the world about why they fire someone as they can be sued for ruining reputations if they do. But we get a vague phrase which doesn’t tell us if he had sex with a 17 year old when he was 19, or used his position to coerce minors into sexual acts.

I am VERY in favor of cleaning up the sport. Particularly for anyone currently active who may be a danger to someone. But this isn’t being handled like an employer - it is a blast to the public with no details behind it, so we don’t really know what it means.

Someone leaked to the media that it involved multiple riders in multiple states, so it looks like he was doing a Jimmy Williams. Whether or not the alleged offenses are from his younger, single days as a trainer or his time with Debbie in Idaho and Florida is not clear.

[Bogey2]

@Mardi

Knew what ???
Perhaps “they” are against SS because they disagree with way it’s implemented; accusations and investigations should be handled in court.
His lifetime ban will affect many people in the dressage industry, especially those at the team level. USET has some work ahead of them.

More info https://www.psdressage.com/u-s-cente…nical-advisor/

interesting that it’s more important to you to worry about USET than it is the kids he behaved sexually inappropriate with.

[mvp]

@Tarlo Farm

And if true, I feel so bad for her! And hope she isn’t married to him much longer.

Meh… Who the hell knows how marriages work. If there was/is enough evidence of transgressions with a minor to satisfy SafeSport, I will bet Debbie had a clue.

[Gardenhorse]

@netg

An employer doesn’t say, “fired for sexual misconduct.” At least every company I’ve worked for, even for those of us who knew why someone was fired, will merely say, "so-and-so was let go for cause and is not eligible to return. " Not, “he was fired for sexual relationships with minors” or however it was phrased. That says, “he is guilty of some type of rape” and yet leaves it to our imaginations without actually telling us anything. There is a reason news articles refer to “alleged rapist” and “confessed killer” to avoid pretending they are the ones with authority to determine legal guilt. Safe sport is announcing guilt as if they were the judicial system, yet the information the public would have is not available. They should either ban without giving any info since they aren’t the judiciary, give enough details so we know what supposed crime IS, or stop hiding things.

Yes, clean things up. And the @$=%heads in power of too many sports have allowed too much abuse. But if you’re going to publicly announce the “conviction” you make, actually say what the accusation was. If you aren’t going to share that, just say lifetime ban and not eligible for reinstatement and you have the equivalent of an employer.

What kind of salacious details about his sexual misconduct with minors do you want?

[Jealoushe]

@Mardi

Knew what ???
Perhaps “they” are against SS because they disagree with way it’s implemented; accusations and investigations should be handled in court.
His lifetime ban will affect many people in the dressage industry, especially those at the team level. USET has some work ahead of them.

More info https://www.psdressage.com/u-s-cente…nical-advisor/

Knew he was a predator. Dont play dumb.

Too bad so sad about the people HIS actions affect. You know who else is affected? The victims. Don’t see you giving a single thought towards them.

They supported others because they care more about their careers than the people they abuse or enable to abuse.

Get your old boys club attitude out of here. CoTH is not supportive of abusers. END OF.

My opinion, Debbie only stands a change of surviving this professionally if she enters the big D.

[Mardi]

@Jealoushe

Knew he was a predator. Dont play dumb.

.

Your posts were vague and I asked you what you meant. If you believe those names you mentioned knew he was a predator, it helps to say so at the outset for clarity.

You and I are both permitted by COTH to post our comments here. While you have expressed your valid opinion on Bob McDonald’s life time ban, I have not.
I asked questions to gain clarity on your thoughts, and gave an observation on how this may affect the highest level of equestrian sports.
When a lifetime ban is handed down, especially for someone who is so tied to the sport, it’s unrealistic to expect that further conversation should stop.
Gratefully, this forum allows us to expand the conversation, ask questions, and learn from each other.

[Jealoushe]

@Mardi

Excuse me, your posts were vague and I asked you what you meant. If you believe those names you mentioned knew he was a predator, then just say so at the outset,
and save us from having to ask you, and then be scolded for doing so.

Im scolding for your comments about SS, not asking the question.

[DQ_Foxhunter]

@mvp

Meh… Who the hell knows how marriages work. If there was/is enough evidence of transgressions with a minor to satisfy SafeSport, I will bet Debbie had a clue.

Not necessarily, you can be blindsided by someone you are married to.
My first husband, and I am far from alone in this.
Happens all the time.

[Mondo]

“Not necessarily, you can be blindsided by someone you are married to.
My first husband, and I am far from alone in this.
Happens all the time.”

So much this ^^. My ex husband was a serial cheater for 25 years. I had NO clue. Nor would I have tolerated it. He was the one who was shocked when I filed for divorce after he dramatically left me. :rolleyes:

I feel so very sorry for Debbie. What a shock. The good thing is that when the investigation is ongoing, the accused is informed that a charge or charges have been made and they are given an opportunity to respond. (Again, please read the Safe Sport information!) So while she would not have been “blindsided” by the ban, it is very likely that she was blindsided to learn her husband was preying upon minors, let alone cheating on her.

[BayBondGirl]

@SolarFlare

If you violate the code of conduct in your employee handbook, your employer can:

• discipline you (ie. suspension, etc)
• fire you
• might send evidence to police if it was for something like embezzlement, for the police to handle

If you violate the code of conduct for sport, SafeSport can:

• discipline you (ie. suspension)
• ban you from participation
• refer the case to police for further investigation if required

They are not imposing criminal penalties, therefore they don’t use the court system. I’m not sure how many times we need to go over this. A private organization may prevent someone from participating (assuming they’re not discriminating against a protected class). And, USEF HAS to if SafeSport has.

I vote to have this as a “sticky” post that automatically appears at the top of every single thread that gets started about SafeSport. :applause:

[candyappy]

Why are they banned when it is just “alleged” and not yet proven?

[iberianfan]

The news report says “alleged”, not SS. Per the second article linked above,SS has found, by a preponderance of evidence, that BM committed sexual misconduct involving a minor.

[poltroon]

@candyappy

Why are they banned when it is just “alleged” and not yet proven?

The investigation is complete; a conclusion was reached; a judgement was made. There’s no additional step to make it more “proven.”

I believe he still has the option to appeal which he may or may not elect.

[candyappy]

@poltroon

The investigation is complete; a conclusion was reached; a judgement was made. There’s no additional step to make it more “proven.”

I believe he still has the option to appeal which he may or may not elect.

I didn’t see that. It just said alleged in the heading of the article.