Thanks for the info, poltroon.
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Hmm…I’m not the poster who leapt to the idea (conclusion?) that Debbie MacDonald would have to divorce her husband in order to save her business.
My question arose because of that assertion.
I labeled the “get a divorce” a [I]de facto[/I] requirement… because of the argument made by another poster above. Of course, I didn’t think SafeSport could legislate a divorce, as I’m not aware of any institution that can.
And so my question stands: Is that a straw argument or not. I’ll chill after that, thanks.
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Actually, the statement by SS is usually “We have investigated the allegations and found them to be credible.”
They don’t say, “RM committed statutory rape.”
Even of the respondent is truly innocent, I don’t see that SS saying that they have investigated the allegations and found them to be credible is libelous.
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If you defame someone in writing, and it turns out to be a false statement, are you sure that it is a defense to say, “well, I thought it was true”?
I know that truth of the statement is always a defense, but I thought you could be sued if the statement was false, regardless of whether you knew it was false.
I don’t see how libel laws would have any bite if the libeler can always claim, “Well, I thought it was true.”
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I am not a lawyer. But surely, you realize that just as in any court case, they don’t just take your word for it. You’d have to say, among other things, why you thought it was true.
That said, in fact as I understand it it’s quite hard to win those cases in the US, especially without evidence of recklessness or malice. The law in other countries is a bit different.
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The idea that you’d have to divorce someone on the SafeSport list to continue working, training, and participating in equestrian sport is wholly invented by random commenters on the internet. So yes, it’s a straw man. As a technical matter, it’s completely possible to continue associating with a banned member, as long as you’re not just standing in as a figurehead for that person or allowing them to be around your students. There are examples in other sports of both scenarios.
I don’t know anything about this case in particular; I’ve never met Bob McDonald nor heard anything about him (with respect to this concern). I have interacted with Debbie whom I admire and enjoy.
Generically, it’s possible that incidents happened and that she didn’t know. Generically, I’m glad not to be in her position because this can’t be easy for her in any way, regardless of the facts.
He is sanctioned; she is not.
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I wasn’t quite aware of the specific part. But thinking about it, it makes sense.
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Except he had a relationship with his current wife when she was 14. Debbie is a victim who is in denial.
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Wow MVP you are generally a voice of reason here. Do you really not see how the wife would be collateral damage? Who would ride with a woman who pulls a Tammy Wynette and stands by her man?
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Newspapers spend considerable effort and resources checking the validity of what they publish, in part for reputation but also to avoid being sued. I am not a lawyer, either, but I think you can be sued for libel if the defamation harms the person and if the statement is untrue, regardless of whether the defamer honestly believed the statement or not.
I doubt the burden is on the person defamed to prove that the defamer knew the statement was false.
Elon Musk hired a private investigator to dig up dirt on the British cave diver who dissed Musk’s mini submarine pods. The investigator reported that the diver, who lived part time in Thailand, had married his wife when she was 14.
Based on that, Musk referred to the diver as “pedo guy” in a tweet, and was sued for libel. It seems Musk based his reference to “pedo” on the PI report, which was completely incorrect.
Musk’s defense was NOT that he thought it was true, but instead that a reasonable person would not have taken it as a literal accusation that the diver was a pedophile.
I have given an alternative explanation of why SS will not be sued for libel. All they say is, “We have investigated the allegations of misconduct, and found them to be credible.” That is clearly a true statement.
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She hasn’t pulled a Tammy Wynette, and I would love to ride with her.
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Reasonable. Personally I could not ride with a spouse of an abuser who didn’t ultimately wise up and divorce them. I have compassion for spouses who stay but for me? There are other instructors.
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I’m sure they could, had they actually been libelled or slandered. So if people publicly present untrue accusations as fact, and those accusations damage his reputation and harm his business, then there would be a case.
But that’s not what happens with SafeSport. They receive a report, or reports. They make preliminary inquiries to see if the claim is credible enough to warrant opening an investigation. If it is, they launch an investigation that takes place over the span of many months. They investigate the original claim, interview supporting witnesses, perhaps find other claimants with similar stories, interview the accused and his / her rebuttal witnesses, consider all the evidence they’ve compiled and reach a decision.
Announcing that they found a preponderance of the evidence to be credible is not slander, because that statement is demonstrably true.
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That seems like a HUGE assumption to make, unless you have specific, personal knowledge. Just because they met when she was 14 doesn’t mean anything inappropriate happened then, nor does it mean she is a victim herself. Those are the kind of wild, unproven accusations that do cause damage.
If Debbie is a victim, she may or may not choose to come forward and speak out. Either way, their marriage is none of anyone’s business unless it is shown that she facilitated his abuse of minors or knew about it and failed to report. Had details like that emerged in his investigation I would expect that she would have been sanctioned as well.
Discussing Bob is fair game, as he has been investigated and the claims against him have been found credible. But making making wild speculations about Debbie is unnecessary and wholly inappropriate.
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I would not judge one person for another’s actions, personally.
Information on line says that they “met” when she was 14. They did not get married until she was 23. So this statement is a bit of a stretch.
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I’m not sure I can tell what you mean. Do you mean that Debbie’s career is definitely in jeopardy because of her husband’s heinosity?
People have continued to ride with Paul Valliere, so I don’t think the horse world is going to have any problem riding with Debbie MacDonald.
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WOAH, WOAH, WOAH!!! WTF! Where do you see in my post that I was defending him!!! OMG, check yourself at the door. I was putting out info. I am a victim of child abuse myself. I DIDN’t and don’t excuse ANYBODY.
WOAH, WOAH, WOAH!!! WTF! Where do you see in my post that I was defending him!!! OMG, check yourself at the door. I was putting out info. I am a victim of child abuse myself. I DIDN’t and don’t excuse ANYBODY.
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WOAH, WOAH, WOAH!!! Where do you see in my post that I was defending him!!! OMG, check yourself at the door. I was putting out info. I am a victim of child abuse myself. I DIDN’t and don’t excuse ANYBODY.
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