Bob McDonald Banned from USEF through Safe Sport

[BigMama1]

@netg

An employer doesn’t say, “fired for sexual misconduct.” At least every company I’ve worked for, even for those of us who knew why someone was fired, will merely say, "so-and-so was let go for cause and is not eligible to return. " Not, “he was fired for sexual relationships with minors” or however it was phrased. That says, “he is guilty of some type of rape” and yet leaves it to our imaginations without actually telling us anything. There is a reason news articles refer to “alleged rapist” and “confessed killer” to avoid pretending they are the ones with authority to determine legal guilt. Safe sport is announcing guilt as if they were the judicial system, yet the information the public would have is not available. They should either ban without giving any info since they aren’t the judiciary, give enough details so we know what supposed crime IS, or stop hiding things.

Yes, clean things up. And the @$=%heads in power of too many sports have allowed too much abuse. But if you’re going to publicly announce the “conviction” you make, actually say what the accusation was. If you aren’t going to share that, just say lifetime ban and not eligible for reinstatement and you have the equivalent of an employer.

What more details do we need to know beyond “sexual misconduct with minors?” That is more than enough info.

[OverandOnward]

It seems that they always defend themselves by implying that SS will chuck them out on the basis of nothing more than an unsubstantiated accusation. Blaming victims by implying that malice or mischief is the motivation, and SS responds with a ban if anyone, anywhere, just makes a complaint. Further implying that not much investigation is done. Anything to undermine the credibility of the accusations and the ban.

On the other hand, what else can they say to defend themselves? Given that an investigation has shown the allegations to have substance, these are folk who have been living with secrets and lies for years, even decades. Manipulation has been a life skill.

Probably not the first time in their lives they’ve had to make this assertion to escape exposure, embarrassment - and worse.

Generally speaking. Don’t know anything about Bob McDonald personally.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

The number of Very Important people defending him is quite astonishing.

[IdahoRider]

@poltroon

Orange County Register reports: https://www.dailybreeze.com/2020/06/11/former-orange-county-horse-trainer-robert-mcdonald-banned-for-life/

(He formerly trained out of Orange County in Southern California.)

This is much different from his claim that it was one allegation from 47 years ago.
Shielah

[TheMoo]

@IdahoRider

This is much different from his claim that it was one allegation from 47 years ago.
Shielah

Well yeah, people tend to make excuses when they get caught.

[Bristol_Bay]

I always thought their love story was creepy. She was 14 when they met, and she’s barely 5’ tall as an adult.

[StormyDay]

@poltroon

What that would be is, for example, someone pretending to be the lead trainer while the banned person is pulling strings in the background. There are real life examples of a banned person transferring ownership of a gym to a family member but then continuing to work at the gym as the lead coach. That’s what’s disallowed.

But in fact here Debbie McDonald is far more accomplished, and further trains in a different discipline. I can’t see her ditching her dressage clients to take her husband’s clients to hunter shows. There’s no problem with her continuing to train and coach riders.

Basically what skydy said on page 3 is what I am referring to. There are a lot of questions of how this is handled. Can she hold a clinic at her house if he is home? Can he be involved in the finances or is that not allowed? Etc
I don’t think it has any effect on if she teaches a lesson or anything like that though.

[Danvers]

@Jealoushe

It allll makes sense now why some of his friends were so crazy defending RG and GM.

who is RG and Gm?

[NotGrandPrixYet]

@poltroon

The investigation is complete; a conclusion was reached; a judgement was made. There’s no additional step to make it more “proven.”

I believe he still has the option to appeal which he may or may not elect.

According to his published statement, he’s appealing the ban. Also, according to his statement, you can back-calculate his age when this occurred. Apparently when he was around 27. But I’m sleep deprived from my kid’s ER visit last night, so someone should check my math.

[ladyj79]

@Danvers

who is RG and Gm?

Rob Gage and George Morris

[skydy]

@NotGrandPrixYet

According to his published statement, he’s appealing the ban. Also, according to his statement, you can back-calculate his age when this occurred. Apparently when he was around 27. But I’m sleep deprived from my kid’s ER visit last night, so someone should check my math.

Does it really matter to you at what point in time he molested minors? I’m sure it matters to the minors, that may be adults now and have lived all these years with the effects of his abuse.
If someone was into sex with kids when he was 27 would you trust them with your kids now?

If you take time to learn about child abuse than you can be sure that adults who prey upon kids for their sexual gratification are not OK around kids, not ever. They have a mindset that precludes anyone from trusting them with children. The “dirty old man” is not a caricature for nothing, and you can bet he’s been “dirty” for all of his life

I feel sorry for people that have been brought up to think this behavior is fine as long as it happened awhile ago.

It is not acceptable for adults who take sexual advantage of minors to have a teaching or mentoring relationship with minors, ever.
At all. Period.

[LexInVA]

@YankeeDuchess

So why is he banned from hockey?

His son played Hockey as a boy and he may have had some some membership role with USA Hockey. I don’t know what it was like in the 90’s, but they currently have memberships for all different types of people involved in or around the sport, like USEF does.

[mvp]

I’m still stuck on how/why Debbie MacDonald has to divorce her husband in order to maintain her career.

That strikes me as unfair and maybe sexist.

I do understand why Bob would have to be convincingly separated from MacDonald’s business. But shouldn’t that be possible to do along SafeSport guidelines?

I’m very biased and inexperienced about the people who say that had no clue about a serial cheater… and someone who chose children as sexual partners or prospects. I’ll have to try to leave that bias aside and take people on the other side of the table who say one really can be blindsided at their word. If that is so, I don’t see how an organization can de facto require a divorce. That seems like an over-reach and quite unfair to the blindsided spouse at least. But if the couple had managed to create a private understanding or state of forgiveness and resolution in their private life (e. g. Hillary and Bill Clinton), how can SafeSport set things up such that that’s not good enough and, even with him being excommunicated from her business in definable and verifiable ways, the innocent spouse in that marriage is deprived of her way of making a living in the sport?

It will be interesting to see how that problem gets handled in this new case. Or maybe there have been married couples that posed this kind of problem before?

[2tempe]

Whether or not he is her bookkeeper, stall mucker or travel manager should have nothing to do with USEF ban. He just cant be involved in USEF stuff. He can train horses. He can teach lessons but not take clients to shows. He can babysit the farm while she’s traveling. I dont think you will see him with her at 2021 Olympics. She is not guilty by association so should have no impact on her career. She is, as far as I know, well respected among the USET decision makers, and I would hope that someone in that organization would make a statement of support at some point. I feel for her.

[ladyj79]

MVP, the organization isnt requiring divorce. Chill, this is a strawman argument.

2tempe, he cannot teach lessons to anyone intending to show at usef or affiliated shows. He is 73, be can retire and pick another non organized sport hobby.

[SillyHorse]

@skydy

I feel sorry for people that have been brought up to think this behavior is fine as long as it happened awhile ago.

I don’t feel sorry for these people; I feel anger and dismay.

Debbie may have known, maybe she didn’t. In terms of their marriage, that is none of our business.

[YankeeDuchess]

@NotGrandPrixYet

According to his published statement, he’s appealing the ban. Also, according to his statement, you can back-calculate his age when this occurred. Apparently when he was around 27. But I’m sleep deprived from my kid’s ER visit last night, so someone should check my math.

I get 26. But the issue is your reference to “when this occurred”. Rob Gage did not issue a denial himself, but his friends raged on about “an allegation” of “one incident 45 years ago”. SafeSport released no information about the number or ages of victims, but after Gage’s suicide, the Hunter Jumper Federation released a cryptic statement alluding to multiple victims.

Despite the statement by the Hunter Jumper federation, the furor against SS continued until 3 or 4 of the victims outed themselves in a public setting, essentially to say that SS was not making it up. I hope at this point enough people trust the SS process so that additional victims do not need to out themselves.

[YankeeDuchess]

@mvp

I’m still stuck on how/why Debbie MacDonald has to divorce her husband in order to maintain her career.

That strikes me as unfair and maybe sexist.

I do understand why Bob would have to be convincingly separated from MacDonald’s business. But shouldn’t that be possible to do along SafeSport guidelines?

I’m very biased and inexperienced about the people who say that had no clue about a serial cheater… and someone who chose children as sexual partners or prospects. I’ll have to try to leave that bias aside and take people on the other side of the table who say one really can be blindsided at their word. If that is so, I don’t see how an organization can de facto require a divorce. That seems like an over-reach and quite unfair to the blindsided spouse at least. But if the couple had managed to create a private understanding or state of forgiveness and resolution in their private life (e. g. Hillary and Bill Clinton), how can SafeSport set things up such that that’s not good enough and, even with him being excommunicated from her business in definable and verifiable ways, the innocent spouse in that marriage is deprived of her way of making a living in the sport?

It will be interesting to see how that problem gets handled in this new case. Or maybe there have been married couples that posed this kind of problem before?

He can’t participate in USEF sanctioned events, and she can’t aid and abet him in his business. All they need to do is legally and financially separate their businesses and she can continue on with her business and career. I would expect (and hope) USEF would make a point of NOT punishing her.

[alicen]

I have a question: If the accused is truly innocent, could they not sue for slander in a civil court?

[poltroon]

@alicen

I have a question: If the accused is truly innocent, could they not sue for slander in a civil court?

SafeSport has done an investigation and has amassed some evidence to come to this conclusion. Libel is written defamation, slander is verbal defamation, and in both cases a condition is that the speaker has to know them to be false. To win such a case, a plaintiff would have to prove not only that the statements were false BUT ALSO that they were knowingly false. This is a standard unlikely to be met even if McDonald wins his arbitration.