How many TB pedigrees with NO doubles - (I know that’s not the correct term, but I don’t the right one. Sorry!) in last 5 generations can you remember?
(yes, I know this isn’t the best site, so it could be wrong)
http://www.pedigreequery.com/bolt+doro
Here is what he looks like, if you didn’t know - scroll down to pg 6 or 7.
http://cdn.bloodhorse.com/daily-app/…y-20180604.pdf
well, that’s easy, because i have one:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/midnight+tucker
not as rare as you might think as we’ve had a couple with no linebreeding within the first five generations… though my gelding is nowhere near as wellbred as Bolt D’Oro. :winkgrin:
i love his name and his type though. he’s a classy horse.
its becoming increasingly rare. something I think the TB industry really needs to take a look at. But they won’t
I really like Bolt’s pedigree. Although he has a lot of big names in there; it’ll be hard to mate him without doubling up on a lot of mares. But it would be great if breeders, when using him, actually put the effort in and try to keep the pedigree free from line/inbreeding.
:rolleyes:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/eclipse
http://www.pedigreequery.com/waxy
http://www.pedigreequery.com/hambletonian
http://www.pedigreequery.com/herod
http://www.pedigreequery.com/diomed
http://www.pedigreequery.com/imperator2
http://www.pedigreequery.com/orville
http://www.pedigreequery.com/matchem
Yeah, the thoroughbred industry should probably take a look at this… anyone have a time machine handy?
Why? The reason for linebreeding is because the results support it. Computers are using predictive modeling to recommend nicks. And with only 3 foundation sires, it’s hard to avoid linebreeding. KY stallions account for half the foal crop.
I posted on this very topic-- the entire breed is founded on linebreeding/inbreeding. But that post was “unapproved” and disappeared into the ether. Maybe it will pop up someday.
yes, as are many breeds. But if you start looking up pedigrees of a lot of horses in races today; many are significantly inbred and only getting worse. And many of the countries top mares are further inbred. You can only inbreed so much before it starts negatively affecting the breed in some manner; either by soundness, health, durability, etc. Those negative outcomes may not show its ugly head for several generations or people just pass it off. But many just have their blinders on when making breeding decisions: will it sell well, race to win $$$ with no afterthought into what that decision may actually be doing to the breed. It’s called greed.
The thoroughbred as a breed came into existence to race. It has no other historical purpose. Any genetic weakness that impacts racing ability is going to be weeded out by a poor race record and/or poor production record. Once a horse reaches racing age, the only measurement that is applied to it is the ability to win races.
What do you mean by “doing to the breed?” The breed exists to win races, and people breed to win races. The conformation of the tb has evolved to support one thing - winning races.
Very few people can afford to own and breed race horses without winning races or producing horses that look like they can win races before they get to be racing age. You may think that greedy, but breeders have to earn enough money to stay in business. That’s just common business sense, not greed.
Hmm, beowulf – they share Bold Ruler, Buckpasser, Prince John, and Sword Dancer … your guy looks like a classy well-bred gelding to me! 
My last farrier (I no longer have any horses) suggested the Thoroughbred ‘breed’ would do well with another infusion of Turkish horses. Never going to happen, of course.
… But I just remember reading about Jim French, who ran and ran. Ran some more.
There is a reason farriers are farriers. What did he think the Turkish influence was going to bring to the breed? Is he a breeder? I’ve found, over the years, that it’s best to just “yeah” when the farrier goes on about something he is not actively involved in. I’ve had them try to sell more more Barn Bags and Farriers Formula since obviously they fell for the marketing and are now nutritional experts despite a lack of formal education.
Jim French? Never heard of him, so looked him up. What do you mean by “ran and ran?” He did not even race one full year.
Thanks - he’s a very classy horse - both in mind and body. I would have another dozen just like him and we even picked up his brother because he was so nice. This is him now:
(here is a picture top/bottom of the same side, for comparison: click )
On the subject of linebreeding… unfortunately, it’s unavoidable at this point. The genetic diversity of the TB is very small, and made even smaller by virtue of only the most competitive breeding – and those ‘most competitive’ horses generally are very similarly bred. The entire TB breed, from its earliest onset, was always highly linebred. Most breeds are.
Look at registries like SWB or HOL; they are much less restrictive in the general sense (as in, they accept outside blood) than JC is, and they still linebreed as well.
Linebreeding in of itself is not a bad quality; it only becomes an issue if the ancestor being linebred to has negative (generally recessive) traits. You could linebreed a horse to kingdom come and as long as there were no random mutations cropping up and the ancestor being tripled/quadrupled/whatever upon was genetically sound, you will not run into a problem.
What you should be more worried about, IMHO, are the commercial sires that are linebred to that are known to have wobblers or cervical disorders. There are many. It is not usually a problem until the horses are older, so it is not impacting racing-age horses in a way that can reliably breed the disorder out of the population.
Yes. And it’s also called breeding horses that, if they win at 2, usually move on to peak at 3, retire after their 3yo season if it was successful one, and go immediately to the breeding shed. And that’s just the colts. Colts who haven’t even gotten their full growth yet, siring more colts. “Freshman” is a good term for them – they’re no more mature than 18yo college students.
What a good-looking boy! Thanks for posting the picture.
Doubled post. Sorry
He was a racetrack farrier for 25 years. He was referring to the Turkoman (maybe it was Akhal-Teke?) ‘racehorse breed’ - hard running, durable, endurance horse with great hooves & legs.
You cannot google anything w/o coming up with the TB racehorse Turkoman, or the *Akhal-Teke breed.
Maybe that’s what he meant/said: Not the “show” Akhal-Teke, but the ancient racing breed.
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhal-Teke
Excuse me, Palm beach but who the heck doyou use for farriers? Neighbors? Cousins selling Amyway??
“I’ve had them try to sell more more Barn Bags and Farriers Formula since obviously they fell for the marketing and are now nutritional experts despite a lack of formal education.”
My former farrier (Jeff Gaugler) is AFA certified and does yearly studies with Doc Redden in KY. He was only my “former” farrier, as I moved 20 miles south of his working area, and I was already at the edge. I could have trailered my horses up to his once-a-month farrier trimming & shoeing thing at one of his horse owner/veterinarian -client’s farm but had no trailer. Jeff is often the On-Call Farrier for our yearly county fair (which is a BIG in several county areas.) He owns and rides mules.
… So I settled for the latter: the aforementioned and highly recommended retired racetrack Farrier.
Who is/was fabulous.
I may not know much racehorses, but I hold my own in knowledge and practice on horsemanship.
I’m not aware of any organized Akhal-Teke or Turkoman racing, so I don’t understand why anyone would want to add the genes of a slower breed to an established breed. What would be the purpose?
They’ve been doing that since the 1700’s, even back into the 1600s, it’s pretty much how the breed was created.
The original “Classic” races, the Derby, 2000 Guineas and St Leger, (on which the American Classics were modeled) were set up with the very intention of finding out who the best 3yos were so that they could be packed of to stud and start breeding as 4yos for the “betterment of the breed”.
Here’s the result of the “Russia Argamak”, which is kinda like the Breeder’s Cup Classic for Akhal Tekes.
Race distance - 1800m (just shy of 1-1/8 miles).
Winning time… 2:08
Cheap claimers can run 1-1/8m in 1:50.
You’d be breeding a lot of slow horses.
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