BooHoo....No Mules at Foxhunting Camp!

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WareMule:
I was fascinated by the ways in which they are mentally different from horses… <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WareMule,

If you (or anyone else) have a chance, could you elaborate on how mules mentally differ from horses. I am very interested in learning more. Thanks!

It sounds as though you and Emma make a great pair, and that you two share a special relationship. Sometimes the right horse (or in this case, mule) and human find each other. It’s funny how things often just work out that way. Good for the both of you!

Hi. Here I am. Yes, I too have been the personal attack-ee of a mule (while I was on horseback.) My steadiest, nicest, most experienced etc. field hunter is totally freaked by mules and donkeys. Emus, no problem. Waving flags in a parade, not an issue. Running deer, nada. Mules? A big dilemma. So WM, I can’t say I blame CH. Also, I concur that the groups can get a little hairy. I took a young horse once and only lasted an hour before I cried uncle and took him home. Wayyy too much for a young horse. Green rider on steady eddie is more the ticket there.
Hello to the AZ rider etc. - yes, I offer hunting camps periodically through the year on an as-requested basis. I have a business partner in southern NJ who brings me groups of novice rider ladies for a long weekend in which we practice x-country riding techniques, have our own mock hunt, watch videos, meet and greet and visit with Melvin Poe, meet and greet and learn about the Old Dominion Hounds, then, if all is well, hunt with ODH one day. Hilltopppers mostly, and mostly mounted on my saintly crew, but you can also bring your own horse and use this as a learning camp for the horse too. Best not learning camp for horse AND rider. One greenie per pair is enough … But this is always the case, my farm or any situation. The ‘younger’ the relative experience of the rider, the ‘older’ the relative experience (and I mean REAL LIVE hunting experiences) of the horse should be.
CH camp is very high level, though, and I hope to attend to take photos on Saturday for the paper. Who all is going???

Actually, that sounds like more fun than foxhunting!

I was talking about your plight to a friend yesterday (nothing bad, I assure you) and she suggested just that. Get a rifle scabbard, jug holder and go huntin’.

Sounds great.

An Appaloosa Mule - by gosh that would be the most ugly equine on the planet ! What a cruel thing to do.

Well you summed up what I heard about mules pretty well. The seem to suit the temprament of some people very well.

I have had my fill of OTTB’s and hot horses myself.

Many things that you like about your mule are in some of our horses I think that you are right about the upbringing - if you raise a horse correctly and with a good relationship they will have a good way of dealing with humans. I dont think any of my horses woudl ever leave a feed bucket to come and see me but they will stop grazing and come over and rob my tools and pick my pockets when I am in the field.

I know that those mules are strong and will go a long way - I heard around here the rural mail carriers preferred mules to horses.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> This is where the mules are jumped in-hand over obstacles that are 4+ feet high…from almost a stand still…with a LEAD ROPE not a longe line. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From what I’ve read, mules have much denser, hence stronger, muscle fibers inherited from their donkey parent. That’s why they are so amazingly powerful and able to jump so well. But that said, I have seen a draft cross horse jump a 5’ vertical fence from a standstill cuz she wanted to graze somewhere else–and then jump right back in when she decided to come back into her own paddock. Pretty awesome to watch that! A pain to have as a boarder, no doubt!

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> because mules are not allowed in the Casanova hunt field!..the Jt-MFH went on to say that mules were not permitted in MOST VA hunt fields <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, gee, darn, guess we won’t be hunting with Casanova. As far as “not permitted,” well…I’ve gotten permission to come hilltopping with two hunts, personal invitations (some from folks who serve as staff) to hunt my mule with four others, and heard at least a dozen anectdotes about mules successfully participating in Virginia Hunts, with at least a couple having been ridden by masters or whippers-in.

Kryswyn, it’s actually Thornton Hill Hounds with which I plan to hunt. I’ve been spending some time helping at the kennels, and have taken Em over there to give her some hound familiarization at the Huntsman’s invitation. I like the folks I’ve met there, and while some have wondered aloud how horses will react to a mule in the Hunt field, they seem perfectly okay with the idea of it. I’ll just continue slowly, carefully, and courteously introducing Em to the hunt and them to her; I’ve no doubt by next season she won’t even get a second glance. Especially because I intend for her to be so well behaved as to be practically invisible.

BTW, here’s a pic of us from last Saturday’s Old Dominion Draft Horse and Mule Show in Warrenton–we took a second place in the Longears Walk/Trot Pleasure class (her first under saddle class ever) and a first in a mule halter class. She was such a good girl all day long!

Yep, I am very sensitive to the issue…have seen one or two horses really shy from the mules; but 99% of them either don’t pay a whit of attention or else just express curiosity. I try to be EXTREMELY considerate of people in this regard when I have my mule out with horses, mostly by staying well away from them unless I know they are comfortable with my mule being near. Fortunately, my Emma is a good girl and pretty much just goes where and does what I ask.

I find it is more a lack of education about mules than anything else that allows this prejudice to endure. (sound familiar?)

Mules can outjump a horse anyday. Have any of you non-mule folk ever been to a mule-jumping contest? This is where the mules are jumped in-hand over obstacles that are 4+ feet high…from almost a stand still…with a LEAD ROPE not a longe line.

They are thoughtful and careful and deliberate in their actions (hence their “stubborn” reputation as they take their time assessing a situation).

I hear this talk of “mules spooking horses”. Well, horses can be spooked by a number of things. Cattle, deer, wild turkey, snakes… all of which may be encountered routinely in the hunt field…may spook a horse. Heck, even other horses can spook horses. There are two at the barn I’m at now that will turn tail and flee if another horse is heading towards them. Even if they know the horse approaching them.
The funniest thing I ever saw though, was the most bomb-proof horse we have in the barn; you know the type, the uber-safe lesson horse who won’t spook because it uses too much energy? Ours lost his mind the first time he saw The Spotty Thing (tm.) aka The New Appy Gelding. He stopped, planted his feet, let out a snort, and spun around (albeit slowly) and tried to head for the barn (with 9 year old on his back). He would not walk anywhere NEAR The Spotty Thing™. I had to drag him past the paddock the Appy was in, and as soon as he was past, he suddenly went into Aerobic Power Walk Mode. Took 2 days for him to get over his fear of The Spotty Thing ™. Now, he could care less. FWIW, not one of the other horses took a second glance at the new App.

Whoa! News Flash from the NAAMP (National Association for the Advancement of Mule People!)
“A historical perspective to this issue ought to be considered also. In the south and especially in Virginia,it is a tradition to ride mules when out hunting. Specifically hunting racoons (known as Coon Huntin”) and deer hunting. Both usually occur in the evening and continue after sunset. Mules were considered sure footed and could jump any obstacle ie: barbwire fencing. They could handle western saddles (most used in coon/deer hunting and bear hunting)and still jump. Their natural tendencies go well with night riding and the rowdiness that frequently occurs."
Might I add that on many poorer farms a fine riding horse was not affordable and useable as he had to pull a carriage, plow and go hunting. They had to be “easy keepers”. I recall older hunt members telling me that many of the farmers hunts in Va. used draft cross and mules to foxhunt,coon/deer/bear hunt. This was apparently big in the 30"s & 40’s. I am saying that mules are a foxhunting tradition in Va. and phooey to those who might think otherwise!!
I trailrode with Carole/Emma this morning and I say the girl can hunt. No problemo! Solid.
Kick on and enjoy it! And as Paris Hilton would say…Loves it!

An additional perspective on this situation based on the following supposition:

Specifically, I well imagine that (horse) stallions are excluded from the hunt camp.

If that is the case, then it would be based on the reasonable conclusion that relative to, for example “white ponies”, as presented above by immissvixen, a stallion (especially an unknown stallion-rider combination) has more potential to cause problems (of a different sort) than a gelding or a mare.

I am sure that many of us, myself included, have hunted along side wonderful, well-behaved stallions that demonstrated no virility-based antics out in the huntfield. Truly wonderful hunting horses.

But would exclusion of an unknown stallion (and its rider) from a hunt camp full of newbie horses and riders be considered prejudicial against stallions? Or would it be considered a good common sense decision based on assessment of relative risks.

Perhaps the owner /rider of the stallion would consider themselves to be a “victim of predujice”, as it were.

But an alternative interpretation is that this policy of exclusion of unknown stallions is a reasonable decision based on the increased potential risk of unacceptable virility-based behaviors by stallions, as a whole.

By analogy, the same would apply to the exclusion of mules. A certain percentage of horses have a profound and negative response to mules. This is known. In turn, the decision to exclude mules, would then be based on this known increased chance (again relative to white ponies) of the mere presence of mules causing disruption.

Importantly, this is in the context of newbie horses and newbie riders (NOT experienced hunting horses and members - where is would be expected to handle a variety of situations, mules and otherwise).

If the initial supposition that I proposed is incorrect, then obviously what follows in null.

But perhaps it is of use to look at this mule exclusion policy as one based on assessment of relative risks. Any such decision will have an “arbitrariness” about it, such that the individual who is excluded will feel that they are a “victim of prejudice.”

Unfortunately, doing so may result in the inaccurate and unfair assigment of people’s motive, when indeed, they have the best of motives - specifically to assure the good results for the group as a whole.

'Nuff said. Thanks.

Darn it! I sent off my registration to Casanova Hunt for foxhunting camp, said on my form that I would be riding a mule, and got the info package back, so figured camp was a go for me and my Emma this Saturday. But then…come to find out (via having my check, form, and Coggins returned with no explanatory note, calling to find out why, and learning that a phone message had been left which my family failed to mention til I asked about it), Casanova has a “policy against letting mules participate” because so many of the attendees are beginners–some of whom “haven’t ever ridden outside a ring”–and “many horses and ponies are frightened of mules.”

If the riders are that inexperienced, I have to wonder if mules are the biggest thing they’ll need to worry about in regard to hunting???

This is my first experience of mule prejudice and I am so disappointed…not so much with the fact that mules aren’t welcome as in the fact that the policy against them wasn’t included on the flyer or registration form. If it had been, I’d of course have respected it and never sent in a registration nor gotten my hopes up.

Yeah, I know–there aren’t many of us riding mules, but still…we are out there. And yeah–I’ll take some cheese with this whine!

I asked one of Jt-MFH of Casanova about the “no mules at camp” and was told the same “spook the horses” thang, and when I asked, “but isn’t that what camp is for, learning about things the novice horse would see in the field?” I was assured that NO horse in the Casanova field would ever see a mule hunting because mules are not allowed in the Casanova hunt field! WTF?

WareMule it sounds like you’ll be MUCH happier at Middleburg, although the Jt-MFH went on to say that mules were not permitted in MOST VA hunt fields. Now she should know whereof she speaks, but for many of the reasons Creseida cited, I hope she’s wrong!

Yikes! Sounds like maybe I won’t be sorry I am going to miss it. Too bad they can’t break the non-jumping group into experienced riders who attend just to get experience of going on in a large group under their belts, and inexperienced riders who need a lot more baby-sitting. Seems it would be reasonable to not be quite so protective of the experienced group. Ah well. I guess I’ll just have to spend my money somewhere else.

Better contact the NAAMP and complain!

National Association for the Advancement of Mule People.

Maybe you could get a group of mule riders to picket the hunt camp about this discrimination !

Those Muleaphobics !

Whistlejacket - I’m thinkin’ you’re a lawyer!
But anyway, I’ve hunted with lots of jackasses and most were on horses!
I’ve hunted with lots of mules and I only recall my horse having a problem with one that brayed loudly at the start of the meet. I honestly think its only the sound of braying that bothers horses. I support your sentiments Ware Mule and think you are handling this with class! Leave it!