[QUOTE=Bluey;8962431]
We trained border collies to herd and not one ever was a true working dog with a “gay tail”.
Their tail may be up while puppies and when playing, but never when working.
If one kept it’s tail up when trying to work, they generally were chasing more than truly focused on herding.
Not saying there may not be an exception out there, wired differently, but after watching many trials and being there training plenty of dogs, that has been one indicator for trainers of that breed if a dog is going to be worth waiting for it to wake up to real work.
I think that when you breed for working ability in border collies, a low tail is part of what you find there, tail set not something bred for, any more than ear set.
You breed for the right mixture of herding instinct and biddability to training that instinct.
Found a video showing this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpjP3mxv21s
Now, that is working border collies, not those bred to AKC breed standards.[/QUOTE]
I am sure you are right about tail carriage in working Border Collies, but English Shepherds have a completely different style of herding. I have seen many pictures of English Shepherds herding with high tail carriage.
This is what their standard says:
"Working Characteristics
The English shepherd typically works stock in an upright, loose-eyed manner rather than crouching and showing strong eye. He is generally a natural low heeler and will gather or drive as is needed. He will be forceful if necessary, but not be too rough, discerning the amount of force needed and handling stock accordingly.
The seamless combination of independent working ability and a desire to work in partnership with his master is a hallmark of the English shepherd. His natural instincts enable him to carry out his work with a minimum of direction; his confidence, purposefulness, and a deep commitment to rules compels him to maintain order in his environment even in his master’s absence. At the same time, he is intensely loyal to and ever aware of his master and possesses a willingness to obey.
"The English shepherd is not obsessive about herding and is capable of resting quietly at his master’s feet when there is no work required. He can be trusted to not bother livestock and does not require kenneling when chores are done. Indeed, the English shepherd frequently develops a bond with, and displays a nurturing attitude toward, his owner’s livestock and will keep them in their place while guarding against unwanted predators and pests. "
And here is what the say about the tail:
"TAIL - Moderately long with sweep toward end. Carriage may vary, but preferably held low when standing relaxed. Natural bobtails are acceptable. Bobtails may be up to eight inches long. "
Here is what they say about color- they don’t mentioned brindle, but I know I’ve seen brindles:
"COLOR - The four predominant color patterns are: black and tan, tricolor (black, tan, and white), black and white, and sable and white.
A sable dog may have black-tipped hairs, or may have a solid black saddle pattern, or may be “clear” – without black pigment in the coat. Sable may appear as shades of brown from a pale honey-gold color through a deep mahogany.
White markings are typically distributed in an “Irish” pattern, with or without a white collar.
A black mask is acceptable in any of the color patterns.
In none of the color patterns is white permitted to be unbalanced to a degree of being splotchy-looking or of covering more than 30% of the body. Solid white coats or piebald markings are not desirable. Merles do not appear in the English shepherd."
