I am looking at my life after college, and my biggest decision is what kind of dog to get. I am planning on being a farm vet, and outside at lot, so I was thinking a more active dog like a border collie. I also want to live on 15+ acres with my horses, so there would be plenty of room to run. I also go running every day, usually about 5ish miles. Am I crazy to consider a border collie? I’ve heard they are very loyal and active, which is what I want, but they are also uber intelligent and need a job, which they would not have. Would training for a outside dog be enough? (i.e. lots of hunting things, good stay and return, and heel, stuff like that) I would be planning on taking them with me around at work too, so they do need to be smart and trainable. I am also interested in small time agility, just no competitions or anything like that. I have trained dogs before but not a border collie. Any thoughts?
Are you a vet yet?
Be sure that you are not fixating on the idyllic idea of a sweet companion to do things with, ignoring the reality of the life you will have to tend to that so many times won’t fit taking a dog along.
Why not wait until you are established and then see what else is around in the dog department?
Dogs of all kinds have a way to find vets, ask them about it.
The few vets we had that brought their dogs along, it really was not very professional and a nuisance to have them around, so I would not count on that too much.
If you are a small vet in a clinic, you can put your dog up when you don’t want it around, but not so much when it is upsetting the client’s animals you are trying to work on, or other pets in that place.
The small animal vets I know all have dogs, one bred and was showing collies for years, now has greyhounds that are also blood donors for his clinic.
Other vets have all kinds of dogs, many someone dumped at the clinic.
I really don’t see looking for a definite breed right now, if you will be a vet, unless you had already been involved in the dog world and with that breed for long time.
By the way, we used to train border collies for cattle work and working trials.
I can tell you, we may say, there is more difference in the individual dogs than it is from one breed to another.
A good dog fit for anyone comes in any kind of dog, unless you are doing what the dog was bred for, that is herding or other competition goals where border collies excel.
Then you need one of those, of course, or a hunting dog if hunting is what you do, etc.
As a companion, looking for the right dog, not right breed ,will give you a better way to find that one perfect dog.
I don’t think you’re crazy for considering one, I think you would be crazy to get one NOW - before you finish school, get a job, and buy a house with that kind of acreage.
The best thing I would recommend is actually get to meet a few and find out from the owners how much time they spend training/working their dogs to keep them happy and physically/mentally challenged. You may fall in love with them, or think they are a bad choice…but until you meet several, it’s impossible to know.
That said, even if you get one, it may not work out to have it ride with you. It might be a good gig for a lot of dogs, and especially a lot of older dogs, but a young dog with a lot of energy? Maybe not. Andd unless you work for yourself, your clinic might not allow a dog to ride along, if there is any chance it will get out of the truck and cause trouble on a client’s farm.
I thought long and hard about breeds before getting a dog. As much as I love BCs, the energy level/high drive is a LOT to deal with (assuming you get one with a high drive, I suppose you could look for an adult dog which would be more of a known quantity). I settled on a rough collie. Even with hours outside doing horse chores, minimum 1 hour/day most days playing with other dogs/at the dog park, and agility training-- she’s still got plenty in the tank at the end of the day. She is a great dog with just the right amount of energy for me, but I think more would be too much. If you have a full time job, it can be HARD to exercise a really high energy dog as much as is ideal. Food for thought.
My vet has a Border Collie who goes with her everywhere. She is also a dog from a Border Collie rescue and is young. She stays in the car during the visits and asks if she can let her out afterwards. The dog is great, the vet is like you, very active and has been an event rider and easily able to train and keep the dog active. Once you are qualified and you have the other parts of your life in order (place to stay with your horses), I think a good Border Collie would have a fantastic life with you and vice versa!
[QUOTE=vxf111;8420769]
If you have a full time job, it can be HARD to exercise a really high energy dog as much as is ideal. Food for thought.[/QUOTE]
Amen.
This is the #1 reason why dogs in my breed end up in bad situations. They are not as intense as a BC, but they require daily hard exercise to really be tired, and if not tired they can be trouble. Running with a Brittany is not exercise for them unless you run at a 6:00/mile pace. (And even still, they will not be tired but happy.)
I suspect that there are a lot of physical similarities between Brittanys and BC in terms of exercise needs, but BCs probably need more mental exercise in addition to their physical demands.
A suggestion is to meet some dogs/owners - contact a local breed club and see if you can attend one of their events. Hearing from, or meeting one owner/dog is not enough to get a feel for the breed. We all know at least one anomaly; but if you ask enough owners you’ll get a better picture. (I know one Brittany that is super laid back and lazy. If she were the only one you ever met - you’d be in for a shock.)
Back when I was married, DH and I ended up with a border collie, as one of our pack of 4 dogs. The border collie had been bought as a puppy by a family with toddlers-- well, the border collie began herding the toddlers and was not a good mix. It never did anything aggressive, but it’s herding instinct and relentless need to be DOING something was something to behold.
The other dogs thought the BC was a bit weird. But they just took him into their pack, and put up with him. DH and I used to say that a normal home would have been driven mad by the BC, but we were fond of him and his quirks. And there were many… many… many… He was very OCD. He would get fixed on something and not stop. Like playing fetch. He reduced a friend’s child to tears because he just kept on playing, the child sobbed, “Make him stop. He won’t stop.”
He tried to herd the vacuum cleaner- which made house work exciting! He would dash in to nip at the wheels, and then stare at it with his BC gaze. On the other hand, if it all got to be too much, opening the door to the closet where the vacuum cleaner was kept and letting him stare at it would keep him occupied for a good long time.
He was a good natured, genial dog, but he was intense. Having the other dogs helped keep him occupied, even if he was not a very social dog. He preferred people and his toys ( his! he did not share!) and the vacuum cleaner to the dogs. He was high energy and highly intelligent, loyal and affectionate. A wonderful fellow-- but I am not sure if I would do another BC!
We have four Border Collies here at the dairy. One is quite old and moves about as fast as a sleepy armadillo, so she is easy. The second has one eye and a nervous disposition, barks all day, and will pick a fight any chance he can. The third is overweight despite any diet you put him on and the amount of work he does. He once darted in front of the truck, got his head run over, and now bites whenever he is anxious. The fourth is a young dog, so much drive, toy insane, neurotic.
The latter two are working dogs. All four are out and “working” in some fashion all day long, year around. They are either herding, or catching rodents, or patrolling the property with me. I specifically work longer with the youngest dog, as he desperately needs it.
Border Collies are not for the faint of heart.
Granted, they’re not all nutters either. I didn’t start working with these dogs until the youngest was nearly grown, so it’s been more of a challenge, especially as the owners are - ah, absolutely loving wonderful people, but not exactly dog savvy.
For all this, I still want my own Border Collie - a bitch pup I can start my own way. They are incredible dogs, so intelligent, so driven to work and please. It’s like playing expert mode on the dog breed video game.
The Australian Shepherd is a good “step down” in intensity with the same eagerness to please and basic looks.
Not crazy if you actually end up living that lifestyle you are planning. Crazy if it doesn’t work out just like that and you end up in an apartment or something. I’d get the lifestyle established, then get the dog.
Plan for puppyhood or get an adult dog. Our dog is 1/2 Border Collie and 1/2 random mutt. At 4 years old now, she is not nearly as intense as a full BC and is a couch potato until it’s “action time” and we go for a walk or a run. As a puppy, however, she was a serious handful. Busy, busy, busy, busy. She got into EVERYTHING, all the time. We couldn’t leave her alone until she was nearly two years old. She needed pretty much constant supervision, like a human baby! She pulled up half the linoleum in the kitchen, chewed up windowsills, ruined several mattresses by digging a hole in the middle, chewed up numerous shoes, etc…and this was AFTER she’d been well-exercised and while I was home and was busy doing something besides paying attention to her for a brief period. Crating didn’t work well, after 10 minutes, she’d start trying to get out and I was afraid she’d hurt herself. She figured out how to open the crate too. I had to arrange babysitting for her while I went to work and that wasn’t cheap. Seriously, just like a human baby ;). She calmed down like magic when she approached age 2 and now rarely gets into any trouble and can be trusted alone. On the plus side, she was the easiest dog to potty train I’ve ever dealt with. Very smart…a blessing and a curse.
I hope you’re not planning on taking the dog with you on your rounds.
That would really tick me off, if I had a sick horse or an injured horse and my vet showed up, let a dog out of the truck and then tried to tend to my horse. The horse is already feeling crappy; why should it have to contend with a strange loose dog? Maybe a Peke who would snooze in the truck cab the whole time, but a hyper Border Collie? Not on my farm!
And what about my own farm dogs having their territory invaded by a stranger? And my barn cats?
No way.
If you want to get a DOG after you get your DVM, OK, just don’t bring it to my farm. Or any farm where I board.
[QUOTE=Rackonteur;8421198]
I hope you’re not planning on taking the dog with you on your rounds.
That would really tick me off, if I had a sick horse or an injured horse and my vet showed up, let a dog out of the truck and then tried to tend to my horse. [/QUOTE]
I would assume that she would not let the dog out at every farm she visited on rounds, which is a big reason I don’t know that I would recommend it – it’s not likely that the average young dog will sit quietly in the truck without getting in trouble, either. Maybe…but might eat the upholstery or try to jump out the back unless restrained.
My farrier has a young dog that he brings and it’s a challenge for him. His old steady eddy traveling dog died a couple years ago, and I think he forgot that they weren’t all born that easy, and willing to stay put. 
But he also is his own boss, and probably builds in some flex time to make sure the dog gets walked, etc. during the day.
But a vet? Not sure it’s the best idea.
[QUOTE=S1969;8421248]
I would assume that she would not let the dog out at every farm she visited on rounds, which is a big reason I don’t know that I would recommend it – it’s not likely that the average young dog will sit quietly in the truck without getting in trouble, either. Maybe…but might eat the upholstery or try to jump out the back unless restrained.
My farrier has a young dog that he brings and it’s a challenge for him. His old steady eddy traveling dog died a couple years ago, and I think he forgot that they weren’t all born that easy, and willing to stay put. But he also is his own boss, and probably builds in some flex time to make sure the dog gets walked, etc. during the day.
But a vet? Not sure it’s the best idea.[/QUOTE]
Our farrier has a larger miniature aussie that he keeps in his truck and barks all the time he is working on horses.
Once thru, he lets him run around.
I keep my dog in the house when he comes, she is little and old and was already almost killed once by a big dog that jumped her out of nowhere, don’t need to ask for trouble.
Ok, I have to respond. My BC came to me at 4 months of age and she was my perfect dog…could go anywhere, got along with anyone or anything, and unfailingly loyal. She was originally purchased from the local mall pet store by a condo dweller who forgot to check the bylaws regarding dogs and was in the process of trying (and failing) to return her to said pet store…I stepped in and took her home.
Given her pet store roots, I would think she wasn’t terribly well bred, but she was the best dog and didn’t require much. She did go to work at the farm with me everyday, but was never a nuisance. She was perfect at horse shows, would sit in my truck with every door and window open, but would not think of coming out until called.
I could go on about all her attributes, but long story short…she was my perfect dog. Lost sweet Sammy 2+ years ago, miss her everyday. My current dog is a BC mix, again so sweet, wouldn’t hesitate to have another BC. Obviously, every dog is an individual, but my experiences have been excellent! Get settled in your life and get one!!
I love all the collies, but I don’t think a purebred Border is a dog for 99% of people. They’re not a dog that can be given good, hard exercise to wear it down - they just don’t wear down. Mentally, they’re wired to the point of being neurotic, which is a problem with a lot of the lovely, responsive, brilliant herding breeds. Beautiful dogs, but there are major drawbacks to them. And these are drawbacks I can live with, myself, to some extent but they are not what many people want in a dog now. They’re not laid back, they’re not easy-going, and they will be a bigger headache at the dog park, the pet store, etc., than a Golden or a Bernese or a Lhasa Apso. They’re bossy, they’re humorless and their idea of a job is working a ranch where the sheep routinely have to be moved from one mountain to another - through a flooded river.
Also, it’s not just exercise and a job, it’s living with a dog that watches you all the time. One that will get up and follow you to the other side of the room and then back and then back again, without ever deciding to just stay put. One whose alertness has only 2 settings - “Extremely High” and “Insane”. You know how people buy fish tanks for their soothing qualities? BCs are the anti-fish tank. And you can’t train it out of them. Training a BC is like pouring gasoline on a fire. You can do it, and you will get a different situation and set of problems than you had previously, but you can’t honestly be said to have solved anything.
A lot of times, a mix is a good choice as the out cross, no matter how unplanned, can lessen the intensity of the messed-up breeding for narrow traits. Just be sure it’s actually a real BC mix. You see an awful lot of dogs with zero collie traits being called a BC mix because it’s black with a white blaze.
[QUOTE=Tux61096;8421350]
Ok, I have to respond. My BC came to me at 4 months of age and she was my perfect dog…could go anywhere, got along with anyone or anything, and unfailingly loyal.
Obviously, every dog is an individual, but my experiences have been excellent! Get settled in your life and get one!![/QUOTE]
Again - it’s great to hear stories like this, but it’s important to know whether your BC is the model or the exception.
My 1st Brittany was like your BC. I let him off a leash to play with another dog after a dog show in a parking lot. When I think about that now I laugh. No way would I ever do that now - and 90% of the Brittanys I know would also be in the woods hunting before you could blink (or across the highway, etc.)
When we got our 2nd Brittany, we thought he was the worst dog ever. The 3rd and 4th and the 50 others that I know now have made me realize that my 1st dog was truly an anomaly. We were lucky to have had him, but boy did he spoil us!
I would tell people to meet at least 10 Brittanys owned by at least 3-4 different people before deciding if they like the breed. And especially the part about asking “what does your day look like” when evaluating temperament and behavior. People think my dogs are really sweet and easy when they visit me – they ARE sweet, but they are only easy because I run them hard before company comes.
Wow, okay I wasn’t expecting so many answers :). So it looks like I need to clear some stuff up. The dog would stay in the truck (I refuse to own something that can’t pull a trailer) until I am done or the owner and horse is fine, otherwise they would come out when I am done. I was looking at rescues, maybe 2-3 y/o, one that if needed I could do herding with. I currently own a neurotic dog who is deathly loyal (he attacked my mother when she tickled me and he will sit in the closet and stare at the vacuum cleaner for hours), and I am fine with that, but he is lazy as a lesson horse and I want something active. I know I should also not really think about this now, but I am obsessive as well and need to have this planned
[QUOTE=wow;8421692]
Wow, okay I wasn’t expecting so many answers :). So it looks like I need to clear some stuff up. The dog would stay in the truck (I refuse to own something that can’t pull a trailer) until I am done or the owner and horse is fine, otherwise they would come out when I am done. I was looking at rescues, maybe 2-3 y/o, one that if needed I could do herding with. I currently own a neurotic dog who is deathly loyal (he attacked my mother when she tickled me and he will sit in the closet and stare at the vacuum cleaner for hours), and I am fine with that, but he is lazy as a lesson horse and I want something active. I know I should also not really think about this now, but I am obsessive as well and need to have this planned :)[/QUOTE]
Believe me I understand being obsessive and NEEDING things planned (planning for my working line German shepherd puppy to do IPO which I probably won’t be getting for the next 1 - 1.5 years).
There are people who are border collie people and to them border collies are perfect.
To be frank if you REALLY WANT a border collie I would either go with a rescue or a VERY well bred breeder.
Border collies can be high drive, can be prone to neuroses when not given a proper outlet. It’s not just a need for physical stimulation but mental stimulation as well. Just going around with you in your truck and getting quick bursts of exercise might not cut it.
IF you do get a border collie look for one that has lower drive and steady nerves. Go to a good breeder that shows their dogs in some events and has them health tested be it agility, herding, rally, obedience, you name it. Litters often have a range of drives in it and there might be a puppy that could be a good active family pet. Or else be super upfront with a border collie rescue.
Other breeds to consider that might be a fit for you: Corgi (I have a Cardigan Corgi on my list to be my ‘small dog’ - they’re more serious than the Pems and I find I click better with their personalities), smooth collie, australian cattle dog etc.
Can you make it work? Yes but it won’t be easy and there’s a lot of effort involved. Don’t get so hung up on the ‘idyllic rose-colored’ view. Life has a way of throwing a wrench in it.
Says the girl who loves the drivey, active breeds that like to be kept busy. I was really hoping to get my IPO prospect in October. Nope says life
Had BCs for years now. Easiest breed I’ve never owned. One of my three is my legal assistant. Goes to work with me every day. It’s a job, just as yours would have a job as your veterinary assistant. They don’t all have to be out working stock.
[QUOTE=wow;8421692]
Wow, okay I wasn’t expecting so many answers :). So it looks like I need to clear some stuff up. The dog would stay in the truck (I refuse to own something that can’t pull a trailer) until I am done or the owner and horse is fine, otherwise they would come out when I am done. I was looking at rescues, maybe 2-3 y/o, one that if needed I could do herding with. I currently own a neurotic dog who is deathly loyal (he attacked my mother when she tickled me and he will sit in the closet and stare at the vacuum cleaner for hours), and I am fine with that, but he is lazy as a lesson horse and I want something active. I know I should also not really think about this now, but I am obsessive as well and need to have this planned :)[/QUOTE]
Are you in vet school now?
It’s never too early to start to find breeders - particularly because a well-bred litter might be sold before it is born. But if you really want to start planning - that’s the best place. Sometimes breeders will have older dogs to place (or replace) so even if you’re not interested in a puppy, they are still good to know. And, at least in my breed - everyone knows everyone else - so if one breeder doesn’t have what you’re looking for, give them 15 minutes on Facebook/phone/email and you’d be amazed at how quickly things can move for the right home. People are also often to ship/transport dogs for the right home as many breeders are showing/competing and on the road anyway.
[QUOTE=vxf111;8420769]
If you have a full time job, it can be HARD to exercise a really high energy dog as much as is ideal. Food for thought.[/QUOTE]
It’s not bad as a small animal veterinarian. While I own my own place now, every place I’ve been at has embraced my dogs. I actually train in small increments several times a day. No Border Collies for me, but two of the highest drive corgis going. The baby is 16 weeks. They get physical exercise, but it’s planning for the mental activity that is more important for them and for many of the agility border collies I know.
