She is not at the point where she works in a headset yet. When she is in the bosal or even a halter she gives and flexes easily to both sides. I’m not sure what her issue is with the bit but I believe I checked and the 4 3/4 bits are too small because I wondered that as well when she first started pulling.
When she was at the first trainer’s he rode her with no contact and she rode with her nose to the ground (of her own free will) and she kept chomping at the bit and reaching further down to try and get rid of it.
I don’t really trust her enough to leave her in a snaffle to run around and get used to it. She would find something to hurt herself on in a pasture with nothing in it!
As far as it being a behavior issue it’s not something I know how to fix and the trainer just thinks it is over stimulating her when you contact her mouth. She has great ground manners, lunges with no issue and moves off the leg just fine. The trainer started her from the beginning again when the issue first came up and said that she does fine with everything else but the bit. Any exercises you recommend I try?
On an off hand note I went out and rode her in a bosal last weekend and she did great. No pulling the reins from me and she flexed when she was asked. She also knows how to one rein stop and did that with no problem.
It sounds like she just needs to learn to accept contact. Have you (or your trainer - this isn’t something I’d recommend to a novice, for sure) tried longing her in side reins? I’d start VERY loose and then VERY GRADUALLY shorten them - over a period of multiple sessions - until light contact is established. This exercise requires an experienced eye, because keeping her going forward into the bridle is critical.
A lot of young horses go through this until they learn how to seek contact and comfortably carry the bit. Although it sounds counter intuitive to us, riding on very long/loose reins actually exacerbates the issue, because you can end up surprising the horse every time you pick up contact to turn/stop/etc. It might be worth your while to find a good, local dressage trainer to put some rides on her. The concept of moving forward into a soft contact is critical for horses in that sport.
Edited to add that, while I’m a fan of the usefullness of the one rein stop and other give to pressure exercises, I have found that some horses can be severely backed off the contact by “too much of a good thing” and react the way your horse did. Maybe take a break from all the flexing for a while until she’s more established in the bridle. It’s a frustrating problem to deal with, I know.
If you are planning on showing her down the road, she will NEED to learn to accept and carry a bit. Of course, if you have no intentions of ever showing and have no desire for her to wear a bit, go for a bosal. So it depends on your goals for the horse.
How long exactly have the trainers tried bits on her? And how long did they try ONE bit before switching to another?
It almost sounds like they have “given up” too quickly on a bit (since you say they have tried so many different ones) and it’s possible she’s confused with all the different bits and really hasn’t gotten a chance to learn what she is supposed to do.
Did I miss it … did you say her teeth have been checked?
OP did say teeth have been checked recently. Just something else I thought of that some horses like, you can wrap the mouthpiece, or both sides of a snaffle leaving tne joint free, in something like thin latex. It has a name, can’t remember for the life of me. Anway it softens the feel of the metal in the mouth without making it thicker. Might be worth a shot.
Ditto lunging in sidereins. Matter of teaching the horse what tthey are supposed to do and them putting in enough hours wearing the bit to fully accept its presence.
Can you haul out to another trainer to see if they have any ideas, maybe put the horse with another who may have more experience with this situation? Don’t ever be afraid to seek other opinions when you are not making progress with the current program. A real horseman never stops looking for answers and better ways to do things,
This will need to be solved if you have any plans at all for ever competing in any judged event, accepting the bit without excessive fussing trying to spit it out is a part of the judging criteria. If you ever have to sell ( and never say you never will), it will limit your buyer pool and the price you can get.
Otherwise I’d say just ride in the bosal. But it’s better for your horse to master this because you never know what the future holds and sh*t happens that might force you to sell.
Cable core bosals are normally not legal to show in either. There is an art to a bosal and riding in one.
All my horses are left with a snaffle on in their stalls or tied up for a while when first introducing it. She just sounds like she isn’t used to one yet.
Another vote for mouthing bridle. It sounds like Buttercup just needs to wear a bit and be left alone. Expecting a horse to wear a bridle is not expecting much. The mare’s teeth have been done, if you haven’t seen any other mouth issues there’s no reason she shouldn’t wear it. “I don’t wanna” is not a reason.
There are mouthing bridles hanging on every stall door at the barn I go to. My trainer even has couple that have a cut-off curb and a bradoon on them. An old, dry rotted rein works, with a couple rivets, works great for this.
Never heard the term " mouthing bridle" is it just a strap over the head? Like a split ear with no split so it will pull off easy if something gets caught? Youjust put the halter right over the top if you heed to do something with them?
For OP, she can wear a snaffle when you groom or otherwise mess with her. Maybe put her in the round pen wearing it and leave her alone for an hour…or three…or all day if nobody needs the pen (with water if it’s longer then a few hours).
We rarely agree much on COTH but you are getting this suggestion from more then one of us comlpletely independently and without consultation.
It sounds like she just needs to learn to accept contact. Have you (or your trainer - this isn’t something I’d recommend to a novice, for sure) tried longing her in side reins? I’d start VERY loose and then VERY GRADUALLY shorten them - over a period of multiple sessions - until light contact is established. This exercise requires an experienced eye, because keeping her going forward into the bridle is critical.
^^
She has been lunged with side reins with a bit and she does take direction but she is constantly clacking her teeth and trying to spit the bit out. The first trainer was western and did not take up contact with her mouth when he rode her. I can ask him for suggestions on what he thinks we should try as well. My current trainer is okay with leaving her in a bosal right now as she goes well and he said she may just be over stimulated with the bit and will do better later once she has had more exposure.
I do wonder if it is something she will grow out of? If I never show it won’t hurt my feelings but I would like her to eventually be able to take the bit. I just worry she will hurt something if I put one on her and let her go (we know how horses are and she is particularly accident prone).
It sounds like she’s been uncomplicated to start, and maybe the bit is where she has her fussy fit. I’d go back and do some ground work with the bit on. I have no idea what lunging with side reins would do for a youngster who has not accepted the bit yet. She seems to be objecting to the bit, and riding her when she is acting like she is acting does nothing productive. Take the reins off and go back to ground work and make her work with the bit in her mouth.
Subscribe to Warwick Schiller if you want to know how to train this mare. Chomping the bit means anxiety + contact + skipped foundation. Trust me…I am a reformed dressage rider :D.
OP, Take this with a grain of salt. IMO, LMD probably has a financial interest in WS somehow, because of all the promotion done. Every time someone has a problem, LMD wants you to sign up to WS.
Put a mouthing bridle with snaffle on tne horse. No reins. Put bosal with reins on over the top. Ride with bosal, horse carries snaffle with no reins for the foreseeable future. Old timers kept them like this for months. traditional Vaquuero method was 1 year. Time and patience. Often lost in tne search for quick easy bandaids that don’t properly educate horse or rider today.
While I love my Bill Black bosal, it was spendy. A Chavez or Kathy’s bosal should work for you too. Look for something with give.
Even less complex would be to put her in a sidepull.
Your trainer should know how to select a bosal, if she’s using one. I’m surprised she’s not helping you. Bosals have a bit of jaw pressure and little lateral, so I think, with the experience I’m guessing you have, a sidepull would be a better bet.
A bosal of any kind is more about what you put in a horse’s head than what you hang on it.
The rider and horse have to communicate on another level, seat and leg and voice and the lightest touch of the reins the goal of that communication.
For that, you do some of the work of teaching how to work with a hackamore on the ground, so when you get on the horse already understand what each little tug and release and listening for the next one mean.
If a rider is ham-handed, a horse will after a while “run thru a hackamore”, ignore it if it just confuses the horse by not being part of a conversation, but just being hauled around by it’s nose by it.
Do get a good trainer to show you how to use one, is really simple, once the concept and timing of cues is understood.
I bought a used bosal last year to use on my mare (for showing western dressage), with the horse hair mecate (which I untie each time). I was told the prickly reins make the horse more sensitive to neck rein pressure, but not sure if that is true. Perhaps you can look for a used one to save money while getting better quality? I think I paid $250 cdn for the whole thing, include a hanger with horse hair tassels. Unfortunately I don’t remember the make. I think a Bosal is the sort of thing you can’t really skimp on.
OP’s bitting problem is most likely rooted in something else, and Warwick’s program finds the root of the problem and helps to eliminate it without having to buy any equipment or spend tons of money on something. It’s very basic and well explained and anyone with some common sense and most of all patience can do it. There is no magic bullet, even for OP’s bitting problem, but there is a systematic way to address the issues that horses have and get them over it in a logical, safe and humane manner.
OP, there are lots of good points here. You don’t just put it on and turn the horse out. You’re right, that would not be safe and no one said to do that. But the idea of “tincture of time” is not a bad one either. Too often trainers try to push a horse faster than they are ready for, ask more than they can give – at that moment.
And about bit size – too small will always be uncomfortable, but a little too long won’t hurt most. Some horses, if they take a 5" bit, a 5.25" can be done if you need to, but so much is about the individual.
And the horse WILL need to learn to carry a bit at some point. To not teach this important skill is doing the horse a disservice.
You don’t say how much mouth-hand work you have done. Is she okay with you putting your fingers in her mouth where the bit would go and will she let you do that and be okay with that and all sorts of other handling around the nose? Love her, pet her, stick your finger where the bit goes till she’s okay there.
OP, whenever Bluey posts on horse training, you should read it and study it.
My impression is that they have been playing “musical bits” on the horse hoping to find the “right” one. Seems to me this horse needs a good, knowledgeable eye, easy handling and tincture of time (patience). Another trainer might just be in order.
I would also advise the OP to not believe a bosal is “gentle” just because it isn’t in the mouth. I’ve seen ham-handed people scrape the skin off the lower jaw with one. That’s more damage than most bits would cause.
PB, No issue with the WS program, per se, it’s NOT about whether or not WS is a good trainer.
It’s the constant touting, shilling, promoting, and in this case, ORDERING the OP to sign up for the WS web program that causes me to think there may be an “interest” there. On another thread, I thought LMD was just exaggerating something, and called her on it. For me, an exaggeration is that, an exaggeration. It happens, but if a person gets called on an exaggeration, the response should be “Oh yes. I exaggerated.” Not repeating it over and over expecting it to become truth at some point. When that happens, it becomes a lie. It wasn’t that the poster was dissing anybody - actually I didn’t see that happening on the other thread. It was the lie, and insisting the lie was true, that pushed my BS meter up. So, methinks the lady doth protest too much.
And the OPs horse needs an actual trainer who can find the issue. If the one being used is not finding it, look for another trainer who can, or is willing to take the time.
