Bots

[SusanO]

I went maybe 20 years without ever seeing a bot egg on one of my horses - probably longer. Then a few years ago, several years after a new horse, I saw one or two and then worming fixed that problem. So I haven’t seen any for several years. BUT - I am thinking of doing a care lease on someone else’s horse because I need something quiet and trustworthy to get my sea legs back. Said horse has been well cared for but is covered in bot eggs. YIKES!

I don’t want any bots hatching out here. So do I worm said horse as it steps on the trailer? What is the best way to get the eggs off the horse so they are not ingested? Since the invention of ivermectin I haven’t had to deal with bots so I am not sure to keep them off my property.

[sascha]

Clip them off if they are really bad. I had to do that to my current horse when I first got her. Her front legs had giant yellow patches on them

She is still, to this day a bot magnet, but going after them daily with a wet cloth and a clean bot knife keeps them knocked back. This method is the best I’ve found - wipe bot eggs with wet cloth, wait a bit, scrape off with knife, use wet cloth to clean the knife every few strokes. It is amazing how much easier they come off than off a dry leg and knife even if the knife is kep clean.

[JB]

Yes, get the eggs off before he comes to your place, and then hit him with Equimax since it’s that time of year

[sascha]

@JB

and then hit him with Equimax since it’s that time of year

Time of year is getting more and more confusing in SW Ontario. We just had a -3C night. 2 nights later everyone came in with bot fly eggs. WTF? I mean, we don’t normally treat for bots quite yet anyway, but the whole ‘first heavy frost’ thing seems to be mostly out the window and we wait (or dose twice if things go on too long) for a few consecutive days of heavy freeze.

[Pehsness]

Yes! I’ve been waiting and waiting for the darn “hard freeze”. Instead I still have pumpkin blossoms in my garden

[SusanO]

I guess we will get a hard freeze. Sometime. Maybe January. It is still mid 80’s during the day. One of the upsides to having a small closed herd is that you don’t have bots and I want to keep it that way. It did go down to the upper 40’s at night about a month ago. That is a long way from having a freeze.

[JB]

@sascha

the whole ‘first heavy frost’ thing seems to be mostly out the window

it’s outdated The goal is about grass, not temperature. No, grass doesn’t have anything to do with bots, but it does tapeworms. And since you (and most of the US) should target both at the same time, it’s better to base things off the grass. So, when they come off for the Winter, or the grazing is dwindling (or when it’s about 6 months past the Spring deworming if you have grass all year) then target bots and tapeworms

The life cycle of both is such that you don’t really need to be concerned about a 6 month separation. If you end up with bot eggs on them after you deworm, then just target them again in the Spring.

[sascha]

Well, our grass has been dwindling since August. We still have bot flies apparently. I think I’ll stick to the old, wait til the flying bastages are killed by cold and deworm (again if already done previously) and hit them again early spring for anything that may have been missed.

My point was that if you want your horse to go through winter as clear of bots as possible, you may need to deworm a LOT later than we used to do because our weather is not as reliable as it used to be. We cannot expect bot flies to be dead by late October anymore. What seems like the first hard frost is not necessarily enough anymore because more often than not, it’s a temperature blip that doesn’t kill all the nasties off. A much later period of actual freezing is way more reliable if you want to be as sure as possible that your horse is not carrying a bot burden all winter.

[JB]

The issue is that a single hard freeze doesn’t kill them all. Here in NC, a hard freeze can be followed by days of 40s for the lows, and by the time we get reliable hard freezes at night, it’s into December, long past 6 months since the Spring deworming.

The idea that cold kills insects, by default, is a myth.

And just because you might have some bot flies until December, doesn’t mean you wait 8-9 months to deworm in December, and then 3-4 months deworm again. 6 months is fine, due to the lifecycles.

That ^^ is per Dr Martin Nielsen, a leading parasitologist in all this.

[sascha]

@JB

Here in NC, a hard freeze

I believe those are mutually exclusive terms I almost wrote a disclaimer about not knowing anything about more southern climates. I’ll clear that up now, what used to happen up here in the north was that we’d get some chilly days and then boom, hard frost followed by months of below freezing. Bugs died. Nowadays, at roughly the same time of year, we may get what we feel are hard frosts (several degrees below freezing) but they are in fact not enough to keep the bastages dead. We need to wait longer for killing cold now

I personally will continue with my overly protective/aggressive regime. Having seen bots cause ulcers (scoped, thankfully not my horse) in the depths of winter, I’m just not willing to wait with my personal ulcer-prone little flower.

[SusanO]

We are in a drought situation so grass has been dwindling since mid June. Last year we had a very mild winter with 3 cold days around Christmas. Then warm again. So I don’t think we have enough cold here to kill anything.

I just hate bots and all those yellow eggs and would prefer not to have them living here again. The horse is coming from a situation where there are horses coming and going and the horses are covered in bot eggs. I don’t want that here. Aside from the eggs the horse looks really healthy.

[walkinthewalk]

Yes to the wet cloth and a bot knife. Be sure to use WARM water. It tricks the eggs into thinking the horse is licking them and they will release a lot easier.

I don’t know why some horses are more attractive to bot flies than others. A lady on another forum has one sorrel who is driven mad by the bot flies. She has found a 50:50 mix of ACV:water slathered on his legs helps but only for a few hours. Someone else commented white vinegar works better. As with anything, do a patch test first🤠

OP, When you deworm the new horse, pick up all of his manure ASAP, if possible.

[sascha]

Yup. Mine is a bot fly magnet and bellwether. I can give the rest of the barn about a week’s notice to start watching for eggs. She tolerates them (wtf?) I joke that she invites them to have orgies on her.

A few weeks ago we got followed in by one. She stood like a rock while I chased the stupid thing around her until I could smack it. I may have taken pleasure grinding it into the gravel with my boot. She stood there all “That was my friend” I told her she was bonkers. She rolled her eyes.

[SusanO]

How far is the flying range of the mature fly? I am thinking when the horse gets here I will not put its manure out in my compost pile at the end of the pasture but carry it up to the “upper 40” and dump it up there. And pick up its turnout paddock and do the same. At least until I know the wormer has killed the immature bots that I am certain are living in the horse.

[sascha]

I am officially skeeved out. One of the vet practices near me posted a photo of a call they did for ‘not eating right.’ Bot grossness up in the dentures of the poor horse Horse got them manually removed and The Internet was reminded to deworm our dang horses and scrape their dang legs already.

If you think I’m not going to peel my horse’s lips back tonight to double check the fastidiousness of egg removal from her legs, you’d be wrong. If the entirety of North America hears a blood-curdling shriek followed by the sounds of someone vomiting, my fastidiousness is not up to snuff.

[walkinthewalk]

There is also such a thing as throat bot flies. The female lays the eggs under the chin of the horse. When they hatch, they can SELF MIGRATE into the horse’s mouth.

I have seen them on my horses. They are hard as h-e-l-l to get off. I slather them in hemorrhoid ointment. It kills them plus stops the itching. After a day or two I can then clean them off.

Cursor down to the paragraph on “throat bot flies”.

Whttps://www.hohenwaldvet.com/site/blog/2023/03/15/bot-flies-horses-symptoms-prevention

[sascha]

Yup. So. Gross.

My horse’s gums were fine this evening I really did check lol.