Agreed, he speaks from experience and has learned from it. Many others could do the same.
I will say the fact that Boyd jumped off right away was a relief. I know most expect nothing less, but that is not always the case you see when so close to home.
While I totally get where your coming from, there is nothing wrong with learning and teaching a better way to do things. Just cause I did something ridiculous in my past in the name of being competitive, why would I not use my experience to teach people that it was wrong and teach them from it so they don’t make the same mistake.
Boyd is an excellent rider and takes great care of his horses, there is no question on that. But he also stated that the course wan’t a good fit for the horse and sometimes our competitiveness gets in the way of our sound decision making process.
I don’t compete in eventing but do follow the big names, just because I find the sport interesting, so I’m just an outsider looking in with no skin in the game. I’ve been watching eventing now for the past 10 years, and honestly am over watching the 4* courses that look like death traps for the horses all in the name of being getting that :eek: factor. I prefer courses that have an almost effortless feel to them, smooth, without the ridiculous questions being asked of the horses.
I find it truly hard to believe Denny is a gentle person to horses after reading his multiple crass posts on facebook over the last 6 months.
I actually used to enjoy his posts, but he’s sure going on like a crazy man at this point.
I’m not sure if his issue is the rider, the horse was over pushed, eventing in general or what. He’s so all over the place.
Accidents DO happen, this was not at a fence, and Boyd as a good horseman hopped off.
Yes deaths are bad, and I DO think we are trying to get to the bottom of it, but I DO think Denny’s approach is the WRONG approach. Yes it’s getting attention, but not the attention needed to fix it MO. He’s coming off rude, ignorant and just a little too drunk for my liking. His responses to riders are not educated, they are just pointing fingers and calling names. How can you move ahead if you can’t have a discussion about each opinion and move forward and be better for it. He’s coming off belligerent and rude, and no need for name calling. It gets you nowhere. I think it’s great riders are coming out and trying to discuss it, and I do think it’s great that Denny has raised more awareness, but his tactics are disgusting in how to go about it. Could’ve chosen a different route.
To attack boyd, there is no need. If he’s mad at eventing, then attack eventing, not one rider. How come he’s not attacked every rider about fatalities that have happened. Why just Boyd? If anything it comes off as if he has a personal issue with Boyd.
As for Old school eventing, I can tell you it wasn’t ‘safer’ the courses were more gallop and less trappy, but there were their fair share of fatalities as well. Doesn’t make it ok, but Pot meet kettle Denny. I’m sure his training methods weren’t the best when he was younger, everyone evolves.
What a shame to make it so negative when we could all work together to better this sport!
ETA: This was a response to Robert Costello’s statement that Winding Down posted – couldn’t get it to post the quote. (Robert Costello’s statement about if he ever becomes old and trying to stay relevant by criticizing others “Just off me.”)
Wow, so mature – “just off me” without naming names. Ridiculous. At least Denny said Doug Payne, and called him – horror! clutch my pearls! - an apologist – hardly an obscene epithet.
Who was it that said that those defending the establishment are doing plenty of piling on? Seems to me (some folks from) both sides are getting ridiculous.
But rather than arguing that it WAS the < .0001 probability event – why can’t we argue: Well, maybe, but we should investigate rather than shrug it off or assume it was just the foot put wrong. It might have been, but it should be looked into.
Lots of great hypotheses in this thread about footing changes, twisting courses, optimum times on different types of courses, etc.
I was Denny’s working student as a young adult. He absolutely takes the upmost care of his horses. He takes wonderful care of his horses, and treated my gelding like his own while I was there. He did really spend a lot of time trying to figure my guy out and was the only BNT I rode with that did not immediately give me the “Alpo Speech” for him. I will always appreciate Denny opening his doors to us, even if I don’t agree with his views of the world as of late.
I do NOT defend the firefight he is trying to light on the internet, nor do I defend his actions – but do not do what he is doing and try to gaslight your own rumors about him just because of the way he is acting on the internet.
Great post. Couldn’t agree more.
I don’t understand why this conversation is still focused on Denny being a bad person. If you don’t think he knows anything or is a good horseman then move on. He was hardly saying the good old days were perfect, just that people cared then.
Yet another ULR who attacks him, tell me how this helps the situation? It’s just bullying from all angles. They are making themselves look bad, wanting people to shut up and brush this stuff under the rug. I don’t get why they are so offended by him yet apparently have no respect for him.
I just want to add that I think it is possible to be supportive of eventing, and also not condone the way things are right now. It doesn’t have to be one against the other, but I feel like those who don’t see the deaths, injuries, etc as a problem, think we can’t change it to make it safer, and still have the same sport we love. We definitely can, but awareness and an open mind is needed.
Exactly what I have a problem with, you can’t get ahead if you keep pointing fingers at one another. Its embarrassing for all parties. We’re not going to get ahead with one going at Denny and then him coming back with more stupidness. How can you better a sport when all you do is bully each other? I think all need to sit down and shut up unless they are willing to attack the SPORT with something to help it move FORWARD. This immature fighting from both sides is going to get it nowhere and just makes everyone look stupid. I don’t see how Denny’s pots are bettering the sport by calling out riders, better the sport is attacking the SPORT. Yes riders need to stand up, but I think many are scared to lose the sport as well, which we’re not far from doing with all the crap that’s going on.
I really just don’t see why Denny keeps feeding into it, easy to lose respect for someone who goes back at people and starts calling them names. I see it getting nowhere with that type of attitude.
From my standpoint, I think part of the problem/irony that book passage presents is that although he admits eventing back in the day wasn’t perfect by any means, DE does use the “good old days” as a launchpad to wage war on the sport and its riders today.
As an example, here’s a quote from the Tamarack Hill FB page on 10/28:
"There are a lot more ways to have a relationship with a horse than by pushing them to the point that they get hurt or killed.
That is where I want to be. To go to that place where my horse is my friend, and not just some piece of athletic equipment.
Like it was 60 years ago. I want to go back to that. And I will."
Maybe it’s just me, but I have a difficult time reconciling these words and the posted book passage.
Perhaps because he’s blasting Boyd and now (actually relevant) ULR’s as a whole for things that simply aren’t true? Every ULR I know is talking about how off the wall and frankly, embarrassing this is and incredibly insensitive. To criticize Bobby Costello’s reply and everyone else’s (has a single ULR actually agreed with Denny? I haven’t seen anyone. Just his minions who believe every word he says despite his irrelevance in the actual sport.) is really interesting to me.
Please do tell me what Denny has suggested that is actually constructive and helpful to the sport? What boards has he sat on, what steps has he taken to make the sport safer other than sitting on his keyboard and ranting in a way that frankly, reads as delusional?
Racing keeps these stats for breakdowns on the track and has made adjustments to footing nad/or dragging schedules because of it. Eventing could do the same via incident reports.
If you want death traps, you really need to do some time traveling. Take a trip to the 1976 Olympics. Then fast forward to Kentucky for the 1978 World Championships. Those were the good old days, right?
Thank you. It absolutely blows my mind that people could possibly think the “good old days” were so much safer for horse and rider.
Sure, but saying he mistreats his horses because he posts FB “rants” is quite an illogical leap.
Also, whoever already said it is right – this conversation should be about the horses and making the sport safer and not shrugging off fatalities without any investigation at all – rather than about DE.
yeah no, I’m not his defense lawyer. I’m not picking sides, I think the way he is being piled on is just a way to draw attention away from the real issues. Thats all. IMO I think ULRs are dumb for not caring more about the safety of themselves and their horses…but it’s their life. It is not their place to ignore their horses safety though.
“actually relevant”…ok then
Interesting article, maybe eventing could follow suit. http://www.thehorse.com/articles/383…horse-injuries
60 years ago, Denny was between 10-15 years old.
I think that his point is simple: There was a time when he loved, admired, and enjoyed his horses fairly. Then there was a time - a long time- when horses were a vehicle to fame, to income, to achievements for Denny.
Now he’s a MUCH older man, and again he want’s that quiet, happy, honorable partnership again.
He has been very plain spoken about his own middle years where he was rough on horses, used horses, hurt horses.
I am NOT defending his ugly words this weekend- I saw them with my own eyes and was horrified by his going-after them - Boyd and CJ’s owner and connections so publicly and callously. It’s just not needed, helpful, or decent.
Knowing more than one person with recent experience with Denny, I wouldn’t call him a role model for great horsemanship.
You are very much entitled to your opinion, I just disagree that anyone can make a blanket statement that ULR’s are not interested in making the sport safer for themselves or their horses. Anyone who knows Boyd knows how much he loves his animals and the incredible steps he takes to ensure their soundness and well being. This is a rough sport, any way you paint it. It’s always been. But take a step into most ULR’s barns and you will see happy, well conditioned horses who absolutely love their jobs (at least, most of them do. The ones who don’t are GENERALLY not continually pushed at the upper levels. Believe it or not, a lot of these riders have no desire to be hurt or killed. A lot of them have young children at home.) Of course, there are exceptions to every rule but to say that all ULR’s are dumb for not caring about safety is just untrue and unfounded.
By actually relevant, I do mean someone who has actually ridden over these types of courses, who has been competing at the upper levels in post-long format eventing. I have attempted to have respect for Denny many times. Every single time I read his FB page (which honestly I have stopped doing for the most part) he has come out with some statement that frankly makes no sense and offers no solutions. It’s frustrating to see someone who honestly COULD have quite a large impact on the safety of things if he desired to, but instead sits behind his keyboard and continuously slams the sport and those who participate in it.
You’re right. I am unfortunately bunching him into all the old school eventers I’ve ever encountered. All of their tactics are usually not with today’s type of training tactics. Old school isn’t always better. For him to suggest old school eventing is the better place, is really hard to believe. If someone thinks eventing hasn’t improved, then they’re delusional. There are improvements and there are changes happening, they are trying. Yes more attention needs to be brought to it, but Denny took the childish way of going at it.
Fair enough - I disagree though about one point. Having been in many UL barns, I have seen quite the opposite. I have nothing bad to say about Boyd, I have a poster of him hanging in my tack room after all. I think he is a quality rider and I have no doubt he is a great horseman. The majority of what I have seen at the UL barns is less than encouraging however, at least what I have seen in Canada and the US. Totally different in the UK.
I don’t agree with Denny calling him out, but I saw the post and I didn’t think it was really about bashing Boyd, just more bashing what has become the norm. I can understand why he did it, he was hurt, sad, frustrated. Does that make it OK? No. But does that make it OK for all these riders to go nuts posting post after post about what a dolt he is?
They are both in the wrong.
We need to come together. Carrying on the Denny bashing here isn’t helping anything.
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