OP - a prior horse of mine was diagnosed w/ Cervical arthritis. It showed up as reluctance to hold a lead at the canter when under saddle and some mild neuro symptoms. Later on it impacted his stifle, which would kind of drop out behind at the trot, but again, only under saddle. Worth investigating if kissing spines is also being evaluated.
Another idea: you or someone try riding him bareback w/t/c. If he’s ok that way, then I’d guess a tack issue.
2 Likes
Agreed with beowulf about cervical arthritis, it doesn’t always present how you’d expect. At 17, my now-19 year old suddenly couldn’t stay standing in a trailer. Went under saddle perfectly fine, collected and stretched, could do anything he’d always been able to do with his neck. After ruling out neuro, it was determined to be CA. Treated with steroid injections and it mostly fixed it. He can stand in the trailer now but it has to be a larger stall/box stall.
For the saddle question, mine has been reflocked and fitted to my mare twice. Fitter felt, both times, that the MW tree (changeable on my saddle) is the tree for her. Both times mareface said “Um, no” and I had to put in the Wide tree after a week of trying the MW. Going hollow, moving like a freight train, taking off at/after jumps was how she told me. Some of them just want a different fit than what is considered “ideal.”
This is an article that was discussed not long ago, concerning a congenital malformation of C6/C7:
https://thehorsesback.com/c6-c7-malformation/
May be something to rule out along with KS.
Thanks for all the ideas. So here’s my plan.
I’m going to lunge with “dummy” rider as previously suggested to see if this is physical or mental. Assuming it’s physical, I’m going to ride him in several different saddles over the next few days to see if that makes any difference. Fingers crossed I have a saddle issue! If that doesn’t work, then we’ll go down to the lameness specialist. The earliest appointment I could get is for three week from now. So we’ll see. If it comes to that, I will absolutely insist on the back and neck being Xrayed.
3 Likes
I’ve played this game with my very sensitive (and dramatic) TB and basically treated it as a scientific experiment: change one variable at a time and see whether it fixes the problem.
In his case, it was the saddle (professionally fitted), and another time he needed his teeth floating. I worked out the first by him behaving perfectly while being ridden bareback but being reluctant to go forward under saddle.
Your description describes a horse that I had with slight kissing spine to a T. I had tried numerous dressage and jumping saddles. Numerous fitters and a few different riders. I had the vet out and we x-rayed him extensively, and his back x-ray showed kissing spine. Not severe, but I think it was enough time impact his work. He went so well on the lunge line, but lost some of that great movement under saddle.
Might be worth trying a different girth as well.
Something my last saddle fitter pointed out was the need to look at how the saddle fits when fully girthed up. The one saddle I had fit my mare’s back but because of where the billets were relative to her girth groove when the saddle was girthed up and she was moving, it pulled forward onto her shoulder and the girth dug into her belly. Her movement changed quite dramatically with a different saddle and girth.
Another fitter told me some horses are having difficulty with anatomical girths creating some pressure ‘in the middle’. I hadn’t heard that before.
Good luck!
1 Like
About some horses having difficulties with anatomical girths-- I bought an anatomical girth and tried it on two mares I’d ridden for years before I tried the girth, and during those years they NEVER balked. (An ancient Arabian mare, probably Crabbet bred, and an Arab-Welsh mare in her late teens.)
The first time I tried the girth on both mares they BALKED, big time. Usually sensitive to the leg aids they ignored ALL leg aids. To get them to go forward I had to “push” with my seat, and they trudged forward reluctantly. The next rides I went back to the Lettia Cool-max girths and I never had any problems with balking with these mares again for many more years of riding them. During the ensuing years I used the Lettia Cool-max girths, a chafeless leather girth, and now string girths with no balking problems at all.
So not all horses think that the anatomical girths are gifts from heaven!
1 Like
I have an OTTB who… probably has kissing spine… he can have discomfort in the area where the wither meets the back. He has always been a horse to like to go nose to ground even while lunging. He doesn’t fall on the forehand when doing so. Stays up. Have had multiple saddle fitters… good ones… do saddles in such a way as to make him go like a rushing fool… which he is not. The key was watching him go with someone in a jump saddle that was lean on flocking. Went great. Reexamined the dressage saddle and came to understand that, any flocking or pressure “around” the area where the wither and back met, caused pain. Could squeeze the wither itself… but not here. Which happens to be where the stirrup bars rest. Reflocked the saddle myself to keep the front up, but with very little flocking next to the gullet, and increasing away from the gullet to provide needed support. Happy horse. Its not about the width of the gullet either. That’s fine. Its the pressure just below the tops of the processes that is painful.
I’ve pro friend with a big horse with the same issue. Saddle fitters don’t believe her that they are fitting the horse too tight in that area and he goes off every time.
Adding: Yes to above. My horse also hates shorts girths. Something about the way his barrel/ribs are sprung makes it very uncomfortable for him. Got a long string girth… happy horse.
1 Like
Listen to the horse. Try other saddles to see if there’s a difference. We had a mare in our barn whose saddle fit according to every criteria, but she clearly was uncomfortable in it. And the f that doesn’t help then yes, pursue back pain with a specialist.
1 Like
Update:
So I think the saddle is a big part of the problem. I played dress up last night with several saddles. The one he went best in looks way too wide in the cross ties. Interestingly enough, on the lunge, the fitted saddle twists slightly to the right when he gets his back really up, but looks fine when he’s just coasting. The wide one doesn’t twist, and looks more “right” when he really gets where he should be. So I’ve got the fitter coming out in a week.
So with the wide saddle, he was much better but still a little rushy/hollow at times. I’m sure his back is still sore from the fitted saddle, so I’m going to just lunge him this week and let things heal. One thing I did notice though, is that he is reluctant to really weight the hind right leg during more collected work. It may be do to residual back soreness from the saddle, or is may be a bigger issue. If it’s still going on next week, then I’ll definitely take have it looked into more.
Anyway, thanks for all your help! My saddle looked great so I didn’t think it was a problem, but obviously we need a different fit. Fingers crossed that’s all it was, and this isn’t a more complicated issue.
2 Likes
I think most horses have a “sitting” hind leg and a “pushing” hind leg, so I wouldn’t start really digging around the hind end unless the vet has a stronger feeling. I’d have the vet start with lunging and flexing/jogging. If something is positive, then discuss how severe or use it as a baseline, get the horse feeling better with a new saddle, and re-check in 3 months.
1 Like
Hopefully you’ve found it! I will say that a good lameness vet should also have a weighted surcingle - this can be good for seeing whether the issue is weight vs.na saddle, for example.
With the problem you describe I would also check into Lyme disease and EPM.
BTW, some horses simply do not tolerate the traditional length of an English saddle but require a shorter length for an anatomically shorter saddle support area. A good saddle fitter can help you with this as well as the best kind of girth for your horse. Good luck!
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say if the problem is that dramatic you want more sophisticated diagnostic imagery than a pen.
4 Likes
First of all … don´t just believe saddle fitters, trainers, farriers, … some do their job just because they had no other idea what to do in life.
Coming from central Europe, I must say, knowledge in Wellington is embarressingly low. It´s unbelievable for me how incapable and stupid horse “professionals” are here.
And don´t forget: money attracts hustlers.
The cure: Look for a person who is gifted and who´s calling it is to work with horses. And educate yourself through the roof so nobody can bs you!
Secondly: OBSERVE the horse! Even that simple sounding thing you (everybody here) need(s) to learn. ;o
Riders are so used to put on tack and ride, they never question themselves and what they are doing. They never take the time to do every step extremely slow and observe how the horse reacts. Didn´t we learn that the ears of a horse show us so much?! And the eyes too! And the whole body pasture. And the tail!
For example, as soon as the horse steps aside ONE STEP when I come with the saddle, it´s already a red flag for me and I will start observing and questioning. No, haha, sorry, for me it´s already a red flag if the horses eyes follow the saddle. 
Thirdly: Educate the grooms!!!
If you are boarding, especially full board, THEY are handling your horse. Unfortunately again, the education is on a very primitive level. There should be a groom school in Wellington.
People here can buy all the expensive german horses in the world … “if you can´t handle a ferrari, you´ll wreck it.” ;(
Basic knowledge to this particular problem: Horses want to “escape” pain by running away. Silly, but true.
I would look into the “tail on the right side” too. Not a good sign, but can have various reasons.
Beside the possible saddle problem I always had good experiences with chiropractic. But please, again, no bullshitters, only highest level of knowledge! (Ask them 1.000 questions before you let them touch your horse. If they get stuck after the first couple of questions, they don´t know anything, because this is a huge field of things to know!)
Good luck! 
