Just curious to hear others’ thoughts…
Is bravely in a horse (specifically re: jumping) something that they are born with? Or is it a product of training and exposure?
Looking at a 4 year old who is a bit of a chicken. Not sure if that can be trained out or not. He’s so young; I hate to judge prematurely.
Both, of course.
You can teach them to be brave. You develop their definition of ‘normal’, develop their trust in you and teach them to grow their confidence in you and themselves. You take them places, show them the trash cans on garbage day and teach them how to be responsible, respectful equine citizens. This is the foundation of bravery, laid over the course of time with 100s of tiny decisions being done daily.
More important than bravery, in my eyes, is their sense of self and security. Are they OK being in their skin? Do they think they are hot stuff? Do they have the innate confidence - that look of eagles - that you can harness and develop? That self confidence allows you to mould them into a secure horse, one that doesn’t require all their friends and familiar surroundings for them to be ok. In my experience, some registries tend to value that more - i.e. Holsteiners in my experience have a very level head on their shoulders; thoroughbreds typically can be more reactive - but - with proper training (i.e. the ones off the track), they can be very workman like and understand what is required of them. That can translate into a perception of brave as they know what is expected and trust they can deliver it.
My best have been those that were born naturally curious. I worked carefully to nurture that, not quash it. Give them the time to investigate, reward them for wanting to go see that strange object in the corner, careful to not inadvertently reward the spook (critical difference). But I will tell you, as youngsters they were sensitive, hot and reactive. I really believe that our bond, knowing that I have their back and will never fail them, is what allowed them to develop into the confident horses they are. Had they been pushed too fast, over faced or inappropriately challenged they would not be the steady eddy types they are now.
Interestingly all of mine have very similar temperaments, despite starting out innately a bit differently. They’ve learned how we gel and have become a part of the fam; it’s how we roll. LOL
Thank you for such a lovely and well-thought-out answer!
It is also, I think, far easier to destroy a horses confidence than build it. There is no rush to building it. As was previously stated so well, it takes all the time in the world with many incremental tiny steps to make a horse confident–for example about loading and riding in the trailer, being away from home in a stall, going over different obstacles and terrain. Skip steps, rush things, lose patience, overface, create a bad experience and all could be lost. Think of building confidence and skills in the young horse as teaching it a foreign language–first the rules of grammatical structure in little bits, then vocabulary and finally introducing full sentences and then actual conversation once all the rest is understood. The personality and temperament of the horse can make the process take more or less time. Take the time and the horse will be a joy to work with and handle.
Born with it, and has not had it ruined by an idiot trainer or bad riding.
Early exposure and repetition and time helps.
We take our weanlings out for hand walks. Always 2 people so no one gets hurt. They love adventure time.
A little bit of both.
Some horses are naturally brave and curious. They’ll often be brave to the jumps as young horses as well. In their minds it isn’t going to hurt them. As long as no one over faces them than that innate confidence while jumping probably won’t go away.
Some horses are naturally more careful. They need a second to check things out, confirm that it isn’t a danger, then continue on their way. If nothing bad happens, and they aren’t over faced, than jumping usually won’t be a big deal. Take it slow, and they learn that the jumps are all similar, and not that scary.
Other horses? Some just panic when exposed to new things. The jump might be the source of panic, or maybe the judges booth, or maybe the chair in the corner. They might still go over, but it won’t always be relaxed and pretty.
Some get their confidence shaken and may never come back from it.
And I would never assume that just because a horse was ok with trailering, hacking, bathing, etc that they’ll be brave to the jumps. The opposite is true as well.
Jumping isn’t just about being ok with new objects and new experiences. They have to have confidence in their ability to make it to the other side. Sometimes free jumping can help a young horse who hasn’t quite figured it out yet.
Sometimes an older horse starts to lose confidence in themselves as they get a little creakier. The long spot seems a little bit longer, the deep spot takes a little more effort to get out of. That’s when it’s up to the rider to move them down before they totally lose their confidence.
Everything above is very well said and I agree 100%.
I guess the only thing I can add is - it sounds like you’re assessing a 4yo with some goal in mind. Really define what that goal is (a prospect you intend to flip in a year? Several years? Be your forever horse? Do you have A circuit aspirations in the hunters or jumpers and if so at what level? Or are you patient enough and have the money and the skills - or access to professionals with the skills - to take the time to develop the horse in whatever works for that not so brave personality)? Really understand your strengths and weaknesses as a rider and trainer (even if you’re not a defined pro, you are still training your 4yo every time you sit on him/her), the strengths/weaknesses of your groundsperson and/or the professional rider you work with should give you the context to answer your own question re this particular horse (or future horses) . There are many personalities of young horses, riders, and trainers and not all of them mesh.
A horse that is not very brave as a young horse is concerning to me if I am choosing a prospect with the intention to resell in any defined timeframe as a hunter or jumper. It is a bit of a gamble. If I loved the breeding/movement or felt confident that I could place the horse in a dressage home or other discipline then I might risk it. I have sat on enough well bred heartbreaker young talented horses that are afraid because somebody pushed them too far, too high and too fast (and this can happen in a jump chute) that I would have to have a very good reason to purchase one myself and ignore this red flag. Having said that, I too have worked with many horses like this that do really come out if their shell and jump the moon for a rider who can give them the kind of ride that supports their confidence. But again, my goals and context are not yours.
Agreed—and to add, I think a lot of bravery comes from the dam!
Very true, I agree fully.
I also wanted to add that some horses can be funny about ground lines or certain types of jumps.
There’s a hunter at our barn who doesn’t blink an eye at a 3’6” oxer, flower boxes, brush, etc. But canter up to an airy 2’6” vertical? Or really any jump without a ground line and you better have your leg on.
She’s a home bred and she’s been like that since day one.
It would be a huge problem if the goal was the jumper ring. But she’s a lovely hunter for a child or amateur.
Something like that would be difficult to discern unless you took the horse for a trial though.
Personally from what I’ve seen the brattiest and the most hot-tempered mares produce the best-behaved foals XD I feel like maybe since they might be more firm with them they learn to be level headed and well behaved or else they get a scolding from mom.
My friend has had both of her horses since they were born and they were both exposed to the same things and they ended up completely different, one is scared of anything moving in the ring and the other has literally worked unfazed while there was a helicopter in the ring besides it, which is why I also agree it comes a lot from blood as well. Chin chin, a favorite stallion of mine, tends to produce the bravest of horses. They will literally not get fazed by anything
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Personally from what I’ve seen the brattiest and the most hot-tempered mares produce the best-behaved foals
@DollyDoll Interesting, I have actually heard the opposite - in horse breeding terms, the “blood” comes from the sire, the heart or “bottom” or stamina comes from the dam . In my experience hot, nervy, ill mannered mares produce hot nervy foals. But I suppose it really depends on the prepotency of both the sire and the dam - ie how much each one “stamps” their foals. Breeding is of course not an exact science since there are a lot of unknown variables and line/strain breeding within a breed can matter (and of course the European horses are not really “breeds” in the traditional sense since their studbooks are not really truly closed, with the exception of the Trakehner. But the Thoroughbred industry and the European warmblood registries have definitely come close in perfecting breeding for the “ideal” equine athlete, in each of their contexts. Just two examples - there are plenty of breeding theories in the AQHA world too. I agree, Chin Chin produces nice foals on a variety of mares.
Also I suppose there is a difference between a “bratty and hot tempered” mare and a “brave” mare - with the right rider a hot horse might be brave because the horse is receiving a ride that gives them self confidence. But in the wrong hands, such a horse can get overfaced and scared - I have seen it often.
So I guess this circles back to what do we mean by the definition of “brave” - willingness to jump big jumps? Confidence to answer questions it hasn’t seen before? Inherent athletic ability & scope? No spook? And the same horse that might be a lion in the show jumping ring might be a total chicken on the trail or around cows because they have never been exposed to those things before.
I completely agree! A nervy mare is probably going to make a very nervy foal but from personal experiences I’ve seen that usually hot tempered mares, those that take no sh*t from anybody and stand their ground, make some great foals.
But yeah, i think brave is pretty different for everybody. I’ve seen people call a horse that jumps anything brave but that very same horses spooks the second its sent out to trail. Personally I think a brave horse is one that isn’t afraid to try out new things with confidence, one that doesn’t question every move because he’s confident enough to know he can solve it or at least give it a good try, like seeing new things and be confident to know that he can approach it and not freak out because he knows if anything happens he’ll be brave or smart enough to solve. One that’s confident to walk around the arena with its head high and not freak out over the noise of a crowd or a car driving close to it. I don’t think a horse that jumps really high is necessarly a brave horse (i mean they are but not only brave while jumping). What do you define as brave?
@DollyDoll hmm, I don’t think I actually use the term “brave” when referring to horses. I had to stop and think about it for a moment since I know plenty of people do describe a horse as “brave.” I think I usually say a horse has a lot of “heart”, or courage, by which I mean they try hard for their humans … but I suppose this could also be bravery.
I think I like this definition the best (the article relates to humans, but is still interesting and relevant):
Bravery is the ability to confront something painful or difficult or dangerous without any fear. It’s a quality, not a state of mind; it doesn’t need a cause to awaken it. Someone is brave—full stop. To the person who has it, it’s effortless; it’s eating a caterpillar on the playground because a friend dares you to, without a second thought. It’s jumping from the highest diving board without any hesitation.
Courage , on the other hand, is the ability to confront something painful or difficult or dangerous despite any fear. It’s not a quality, but a choice; a person feels the fear or pain or danger, but chooses to persevere anyway.
Source: https://www.whatsthediff.org/blog/2019/03/05/whats-the-difference-between-courage-and-bravery/
If you think about the difference between those definitions, then our horses, as prey animals, are always dealing with a lot of fear about the potential predators in the world (including the predator on their back - the rider). I don’t think any horse in the world, including FEI level horses, is without fear as the first definition implies. But… the best horses (whether they be jumpers, hunters, eventers, reiners, cutters, or your average Joe backyard loved pony) have learned to squash their fears of the noisy arena full of distractions and execute tempi changes or jump a 1.50m combination or cut a cow from the herd or gallop past the point of exhaustion on a x-country course or racetrack (either through selective breeding for a malleable disposition or through training with humans they trust or usually both). Sadly, many horses with this personality type can be ruined by the wrong riding, because they try so hard to please - to the point of pushing themselves beyond self preservation. I guess maybe it is a synonym for self confidence and trust in their rider and themselves and the job at hand.
In Spanish or French, the literal translation to English would be “the horse has the heart of a lion.”
As for the hot tempered mare, I think what you are describing is more of an alpha mare personality. Alpha mares do indeed teach their foals to be alpha, whereas more submissive mares teach their foals to be submissive (if they are raised in a natural type herd situation, which not all horses are). But status within the horse herd does not necessarily translate to status with their humans, although of course it can. Foals that think they are dominant to humans (ie because they were overhandled as youngsters, especially true in bottle orphan foal situations) can actually be more difficult to train especially on the ground because they are not respectful of human space at all. They do look for security in humans, but it is often the wrong kind of security (ie they spook and jump on top of their handler). I think an alpha vs beta personality in the horse herd does not have a lot to do with “bravery” or “courage” or willingness to try that I described above - but there are many schools of thought in the horse world and of course to every rule there is always an exception.
Interesting point to ponder!
@DollyDoll I woke up thinking about this topic (I have a lot of family members sick so I’m not sleeping so well at night these days, this is a nice distraction for my brain! )… and I found this intriguing article from the Western world. It’s worth a read, especially the part about brave vs pushy.
https://westernhorseman.com/horsemanship/create-a-brave-horse/
From the article: “A brave horse is confident, relaxed and at ease with whatever you ask him to do. He is relaxed mentally, and that is what allows him to relax physically. Both physical and mental relaxation are so important… A brave horse is comfortable in his surroundings and in his skin. He’s willing, his head is in a natural position, his ears are relaxed, his eyes are blinking, and he is licking his lips. At the same time, he is alert, and that is different than being scared. An alert horse pays attention to his surroundings and what is going on around him all the time. But he pays attention in a smart way, not in a scared way. He’s interested and responsive.”
The author of this article ( Craig Cameron - it’s actually an excerpt from a book) is of the opinion that brave horses are created not bred. I see his point, but I still think that the truly exceptional horses are a mixture of both.
For me personally, if I was ever asked what the bravest horse I have ever ridden was in my 30+ year riding career… I can probably pick out several jumpers (Thoroughbreds, Holsteiners especially those with the blood of Ladykiller) and one interesting Quarter Horse mare, who stood up to a full charge by a 1600 lb horned bull (beef, not Spanish fighting bulls in case anybody thinks I’m a trainer of bull fighting horses! Although I do have family members who breed those horses and bulls.) Anyway this was a big bull that had been hiding in a creekbed for about a month. He was incredibly aggressive and had hooked one cowdog and charged every cowboy that tried to round him up. We kept running female cows and young cattle past him in the hopes that he would herd up and go with them, but no luck. This bull had literally outsmarted everybody, had found his perfect place in the world, and NOTHING was going to make him move. So there I am, playing cowgirl in my english tack on this mare that has bucked off every guy that gets on her (she’s one of those that “hates men”… but actually it’s not men she hates, she just does not respond well to an aggressive rider because she escalates right back and has learned every trick in the book about bucking people off). I’m guarding this narrow path leading up a mountain to a water hole which is an escape route to 1200 acres of mountains. The other two cowboys + 5 cowdogs gather the aggressive bull along with 2 other more docile bulls. The aggressive bull starts fighting with the younger bulls, then charges up towards me and the mare. I freeze, because I know he has hooked (gored) horses & dogs before. My mare, seeing this massive male animal coming at her, and knowing that her job is to go forward and block him, starts to charge at him, and then I kick her to go with her and yell at the bull to back off… and the bull stops and decides maybe hell hath no fury like a raging Quarter Horse mare coming at him with aggressive female energy! It was one of the most terrifying moments of my equestrian career, but she came through for me and saved me when I froze and did her job just like we’d done a million times before in much less scary situations.
The parallel in the jumper world is that moment when you turn to a difficult 4’6 high (1.40m - my personal height I maxed out on) in-and-out combination or triple combination and you come in waaayyyyy too slow because you are suddenly overanalyzing the situation and your horse effing saves you because you didn’t create the pace, he did in the last 4 strides before the combination. And he did it because he knows his job and he knows that even though you are not asking him to speed up, he better take over because otherwise you are both going to have a terrible accident.
Both of those examples are incredibly incredibly brave horses with courage and a lot of heart. They are the descendants of horses whose ancestors went to war in Europe and the American west and faced danger and did their job anyway in the face of extreme sensory overload and literally people trying to kill them.
That is how I define bravery and courage in that most amazing species, the equine.
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