Break at the 3rd vertebra?

[alibi_18]

Haters gonna hate.

Some people just want to whine.

[Scribbler]

@MysticOakRanch

Very much agree Mondo! I’m just south of you in NorCal, and we have many top competitor s and trainers at our shows, and it is a rarity to see it, and it most definitely is NOT rewarded! Last big show I was at, I saw one rider riding forcefully to a deep frame, and she was reported to the TD by another rider. I did not swatch her actual tests, but she was not in the top placing sin her classes.

I have a friend with a young horse who is naturally overly round thru the poll (ToN uses the term soft, which is a good description ). He is very obedient, lovely mover, very steady, but goes too round and deep, and she is scored low because of it. The judges do NOT reward it. I’m sure he will come up as he gets stronger - I see it more often in the young horses who haven’t yet developed the strength and balance to lift in front. So they either go way above the bit or too deep and behind the bit. Neither is ideal, but the back gets more stretch if the go a bit too round and deep. The danger, of course, is forcing them into round and deep and compressing the neck in an unnatural way. With today’s horses, bred with longer necks and refined throat latches, this becomes even more of a risk.

The palomino that is pictured (saddlebred?) is an example of difficult conformation. I would guess he isn’t ridden forcefully but goes there very easily. I had a Morgan with that neck, and it was not an easy fix. He was also verylight, hot, and typical Morgan overachiever. The long, swan neck is not an easy neck to ride. I see people breeding for it, especially in the hunter ring where pretty is rewarded. Of course, the short neck has its own issues, mainly the judges commenting on ‘neck too short’

This is all very good to hear. I do not live in a megacenter of dressage and I would be happy to believe what I see all around me is not the world wide norm.

[BatCoach]

@Scribbler

I think a really talented WB has impulsion to spare and can be ridden cranked under with out losing all.forward. These horses are still restricted and hunched up, and showing less than their true potential but their potential is so huge what remains is good enough. Also GP has been tweaked to reward big gaits over collection.

Less talented WB and other breeds can’t offer much when they are schooled like that especially with an ammie rider who is afraid to let the horse go forward.

That’s why almost all ammies stall out at first level even when their horse is of medium good quality. They rush the horse into a “round frame” and then csnt get collection or flying changes because the horse is always on the forehand. Then the horse goes lame in the hind end from the stress of moving wrong. New horse, better horse, start over. Etc.

I’ve watched this over and over.

.

this x 100.

[alibi_18]

@Scribbler

I think a really talented WB has impulsion to spare and can be ridden cranked under with out losing all.forward. These horses are still restricted and hunched up, and showing less than their true potential but their potential is so huge what remains is good enough. Also GP has been tweaked to reward big gaits over collection.

How could a test be tweaked toward big gaits? Asking for a lot of extended gaits?!

x2 coefficients are for piaffe, pirouettes, HP zig zag and changes, and the whole test only ask form2 moments of extended gaits. The whole test is about collection and transitions.

Less talented WB and other breeds can’t offer much when they are schooled like that especially with an ammie rider who is afraid to let the horse go forward.

That’s why almost all ammies stall out at first level even when their horse is of medium good quality. They rush the horse into a “round frame” and then csnt get collection or flying changes because the horse is always on the forehand. Then the horse goes lame in the hind end from the stress of moving wrong. New horse, better horse, start over. Etc.

I’ve watched this over and over.

Your ideas are quite insulting toward ammies. If you could concentrate on your riding instead of bashing riders who at least are trying…

When the horse is always on the forehand, I highly doubt it will develop hind end problems… The pressure and weight is on the forehand… that’s where the trouble will began… maybe get your fact straights?!

Btw the image of the round horse is so pervasive, even the decal Pikeur sends you with their breeches has a silhouette of a horse broken at the ,3rd vertebrae and with a correspondingly unbalanced trot.

Is the fashion. Is like asking why Western pleasure horses have to trail their noses on the ground. Because. Just because.

Like someone else pointed out, you are wrong about the decal…

It has nothing to do with fashion… and it’s been around for centuries… crying and whining won’t help.

Western Pleasure is also changing… Get out there a little, maybe you’ll be surprised to see good riding… if you dare be a little more open minded of course.

[Dressage_Strider]

When the horse is always on the forehand, I highly doubt it will develop hind end problems… The pressure and weight is on the forehand… that’s where the trouble will began… maybe get your fact straights?!

This is wrong…when a horse is on the forehand they are not stepping under with their hind end effectively. This means that they CAN’T lift their back, thereby leaving them unequipped to support the additional weight of a rider. Add on top of that tight movements intended to be trained after a horse knows how to shift his weight backwards, and you are putting way WAY too much strain on hocks, stifles and of course that oh-so-important lumbar-sacral joint