Breaking News - Big Brown's Slight Foot Injury?

[Jessi_P]

Re: Arabian racing

I was at Delpark for 4 years, and we actually trained a couple Ayrabs when ass’t trainer for a perennial top (TB) trainer. One we got who had never started, was out of the incredible race mare Flying Tessie - he had already bowed once when we got him and he was going to blow the tendon again after 6-8 weeks and was stopped on before it got too terribly bad. The filly ended up with a cracked pastern but when she was brought back with a different (Arab specific) trainer after surgery she did pretty well as a racehorse. She was definitely not very Ay-rab-y looking - I strongly doubted she was 100% Arab. When we got these guys as 3 yos they had already been broken to long line and pull a cart, and had been shown on the line IIRC.

The one thing I noticed that Arabs had problems most with were bows. Dont know if it is because they are often tied in/narrow below the knee, with such a small surface area attachment that the tendon itself is compromised from the start or what. Very spindly legs, w/o a lot of bone. Another thing I noticed about the Arabs was that after the finish line, when the jocks would stand up and drop the reins, several of them (over the course of 4 years of observation) would cross their front legs and just fall down, doing a somersault, and get right back up, perfectly fine. When those jocks stood up and dropped their heads they lost their balance and just somersaulted.

[canyonoak]

well, heaven knows horses have run on hooves that look an awful sight worse than those in the Jurga report.

And it isn’t as though the other horses’ feet are all going to be magically so much better than what I see in those photos!

I think this is more a story prodeuced to whet interest in the race than because it is so newsworthy.

cheering on BB…it’s about time we had a Triple Crown winner. (and I dont care about his oppnents worthiness–I watched those stretch runs,where he just turns up another gear and I was in love!)

[ravenclaw]

[QUOTE=grayarabs;3241522]
rc - It is interesting - now that we think about it - only TB’s are discussed here.
Would be nice to get some input from the other breeds. I, too, would like stats on Arab racing - in regards to soundness/breakdowns etc. And hooves - how much patch and repair there?[/QUOTE]
It’s not true that only TB’s are discussed on this board. There are Standardbred people/questions on here pretty regularly and occasionally there will be posts about racing QHs/Paints. Those people are probably scared away right now. :lol:

For whatever it’s worth, I sometimes go to Standardbred adoption websites (I have a bit of a fascination with Standardbreds). A lot of those horses need new homes because they got injured on the track and had to be retired. Standardbreds are supposed to be very sound but they still get broken sesamoids, suspensory injuries, damaged knees, etc.

[knowonder]

I love TB racing and I grew up showing Arabs. I totally agree that they are worlds apart in speed and movement, but I think it is particulary ignorant to totally dismiss Arabs as one particular poster has done since your beloved TBs would not exist without the Godolphin Barb, the Byerly Turk and the Darley Arabian–ALL “WIND UP TOY AYRABS”

I’m not saying you have to embrace Arabians or Arabian racing, but at least show enough respect to the founders of your beloved Thoroughbreds so that you do not appear blindly prejudiced. Especially since the TB is only in existence because of the very animals at which you poke such fun.

As always, JMHO.

[grits]

surprise jog for BB this morning

Too rank to resist?

http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/article/45423.htm

[outwestPoloPlayer]

After spending the last week compiling on the database for the test barn, one interesting thing I noticed is that very few Arabs and QHs are bleeders. I’d hazard a guess that 75% of the TBs here are bleeders and 90-95% run on lasix.

Of course the TBs are my favorite to watch and look at. Though handling them to collect blood/urine samples can be a bit like playing Russian roulette. I noticed in the article someone posted (The Blood Horse, maybe?), Big Brown’s trainer commented that he was getting hard to handle around the barn (or words to that effect) due to his confinement from the quartercrack. Glad I don’t have to test him!

[Albion]

[QUOTE=knowonder;3242561]
I love TB racing and I grew up showing Arabs. I totally agree that they are worlds apart in speed and movement, but I think it is particulary ignorant to totally dismiss Arabs as one particular poster has done since your beloved TBs would not exist without the Godolphin Barb, the Byerly Turk and the Darley Arabian–ALL “WIND UP TOY AYRABS”.[/QUOTE]

The Turk, IIRC, is only described as having “oriental” features and doesn’t the story go that he was captured in Hungary? Entirely possible, as some people claim, that he was some sort of Central Asian breed.

Based on the early 19th century prints I have on my wall of the Darley & Godolphin Arabians, they bare as much resemblance to their modern, 21st century counterparts as TBs do - which is not much. Hardly “WIND UP TOY AYRABS” - they were late 17th and early 18th century equines for heaven’s sake. :rolleyes:

[hessy35]

How do Arabs have anything to do with BB’s foot injury? …someone highjacked this thread!

[Drvmb1ggl3]

@hessy35;3243118

How do Arabs have anything to do with BB’s foot injury? …someone highjacked this thread!

I think we can safely say that it was the introduction Oriental blood way back when that brought about all these injury problems and weakened the breed. The English should have stayed with the tough native stock they had.

Btw, the above was joke… lest an Arabian-loving lynch mob start hunting me down. Hell hath no fury like an Arabian lover scorned!

[knowonder]

I can only speak to the measurements of the Godolphin and I can assure you he was a typey golden bay that was longer from withers to nose that from withers to tail–hardly resembling the TB’s of today–and Arabs of the earlier centuries were not bred to look as “typey” as they are for today’s show ring so while those old prints might not look like the “wind up toys” of today, I can guarantee they were in fact all Arabian in descent. And to qualify that claim I have done extensive research on this very subject and have talked with many notable scholars in both the Arabian and Thoroughbred breeding industry.

And don’t worry–I don’t feel scorned at all–I lived a lifetime hearing the same old things about 'em–doesn’t make me respect them any less as a breed!

Hijack over–so sorry to vent, but I really hate breed prejudice, especially when it is blind–as most prejudices are.

Please return to Big Brown’s feet–I am pulling for a TC victory!!!

[bt1]

All I can say is that I nearly spit beer all across the bar last night when I saw the words “equine podiatrist” on the bottom of the tv screen when they were interviewing BB’s farrier, sound was off so I don’t know what was actually being said. Gotta love it when non horse people try and make horse sense

[Glimmerglass]

[QUOTE=bt;3243192]
All I can say is that I nearly spit beer all across the bar last night when I saw the words “equine podiatrist” on the bottom of the tv screen when they were interviewing BB’s farrier, sound was off so I don’t know what was actually being said. Gotta love it when non horse people try and make horse sense[/QUOTE]

?

Institute of Applied Equine Podiatry

While someone may be a “farrier” the actual maintenance of the hoof (such as the quarter crack) is or should be via an equine podiatrist. Laminitis, et al is addressed by that field as well. The International Equine Podiatry Center is actually in Versailles, KY and I’ve been there and know a former practitioner with that Center.

Not sure what your objection, or rather humour, is with.

[Ridge_Runner]

@knowonder;3243163

I can only speak to the measurements of the Godolphin and I can assure you he was a typey golden bay that was longer from withers to nose that from withers to tail–hardly resembling the TB’s of today–and Arabs of the earlier centuries were not bred to look as “typey” as they are for today’s show ring so while those old prints might not look like the “wind up toys” of today, I can guarantee they were in fact all Arabian in descent. And to qualify that claim I have done extensive research on this very subject and have talked with many notable scholars in both the Arabian and Thoroughbred breeding industry.

Actually hasn’t it been proven that three breeds made up the outcross to the early TB’s…Arab’s, Barb’s and Turks? Many speculate that the Goldophin Arab was actually a Barb and not an Arab at all based on his conformation. In those days in England, any oriental blooded horse was referred to as an Arab even though it was not really what we think of as an Arab today.

I can tell you that horses of Barb descent have excellent feet in general and, like modern Arabs, have great endurance. A Barb is not a racehorse either though and was bred to be a warhorse and for agility…not flat running speed.

Here is a page off the TB Heritage site that talks about the Foundation Stallions of the breed. It’s very interesting as there is much more there than just the three big names we hear the most often.

http://www.tbheritage.com/HistoricSires/FoundationSires.html

[rio2]

speaking of bad feet in TB’s

Just out of curiosity—
Anyone ever wonder if there may be a correlation between steroid use and poor feet? There are other causes of bad feet other than “bad bloodlines” including environmental and nutrition I’m sure…This question is asked in earnest. I just hate people jumping all over a horse (“prepetuating the bad foot problem by breeding to him”), when usually not everyone knows the whole story:confused:

Edited to add : I really like Big Brown and hope he is well

[Albion]

[QUOTE=knowonder;3243163]
I can only speak to the measurements of the Godolphin and I can assure you he was a typey golden bay that was longer from withers to nose that from withers to tail–hardly resembling the TB’s of today–and Arabs of the earlier centuries were not bred to look as “typey” as they are for today’s show ring so while those old prints might not look like the “wind up toys” of today, I can guarantee they were in fact all Arabian in descent. And to qualify that claim I have done extensive research on this very subject and have talked with many notable scholars in both the Arabian and Thoroughbred breeding industry.[/QUOTE]

Really? Were you there? Have blood samples so we can compare DNA? How exactly can you ‘guarantee’ it? You can speculate, and that’s about it. I say that as a historian - to say you can ‘guarantee’ something that has so little FIRM data to back it up is hubristic at best. Plenty of ‘notable scholars’ produce research that barely holds up to the rigors of peer review, to say the least. Early TBs didn’t exactly resemble Storm Cat, you know.

My point was to foam at the mouth that ZOMG THE TB PEOPLE DON’T APPRECIATE THE BREED’S ORIGINS because they think (modern, late 20th and 21st century) Arab race horses look like “wind up toys” is ridiculous - you are comparing 21st century apples to 17th and 18th century oranges.

[purplnurpl]

humph. maybe he won’t pass it on?

I am currently training a fantastic little TB gelding from the Big Brown gene pool.
He is out of the Nureyev line just like Big Brown.

He has the most spectacular TB feet I have ever seen.
He’s running Novice HTs, schooling Training, jumps a few times a week and is BAREFOOT!!!

here’s a pic of the little bugger:
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p189/xckaboom/andy3.jpg

who the heck knows who gave them good or bad feet and whether or not it can be diluted enough to keep it’s ugle face at bay.

[horselips]

I would certainly be willing to bet that BB’s connections do not mind/are encouraging any talk of his quarter crack because they’d like people to think:

• If he loses there is an excuse.

• If he scratches there’s a reason.

• If he wins, he must be a super horse (to win with bad feet and all), so please throw money their way to breed your mare to him.

[NMK]

Safety pin anyone?

[Beezer]

[QUOTE=NMK;3245258]
Safety pin anyone?[/QUOTE]

SNORK!!

I have to say, I was bothered more by Ian McKinlay’s statement on the Bloodhorse site that Brown had an abscess. Open and draining, yes, but still an abscess. Those buggers really, really hurt.

So the question is … how long was THAT brewing, because they don’t happen overnight.

[miss_critic]

Yeah, I did a double take when I read about an abscess. They didn’t mention that before and a horse would know if they had one of those. Unless, this was some different kind that I’ve never heard of.