Breeching

[Tee]

I think I know the answer to this question, but it can’t hurt to ask for help.

I have a nice Morgan that I started driving back in 2007 (I think). He had about 40 drives and then we focused on riding. Back then, I had a metal easy entry cart that had a handy metal ring for the breeching to attach to. I put clips on the holdback straps and made them a lovely quick connect.

Fast forward to last month when I found a great pleasure cart for a price I could not resist. And have since worked on getting everything set up and adjusted correctly. And found trace extenders - thanks to all those who helped with that.

My question is that there is no where on this cart to attach the breeching or run it through, so it just slides back. There are the loops to run the traces thru, so I jury rigged and made that work to hold the breeching in place.

I think there’s a piece of hardware maybe missing on the cart? We are going to take a couple of lessons, but it won’t be until next month.

Here’s a pic of the cart on Remy (not hooked up entirely - just wanted to snap a quick pic). https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201469640735272&set=a.1031110110353.140921.1603391978&type=3&theater

[Tee]

And also if you see anything obvious that needs fixing, please let me know.

[Drive_NJ]

what you want is a FOOTMAN LOOP - sort of an elongated U-shaped bracket about 2 inches long and raised about 1/2 inch off the shaft

it is attached on to the underside of the shaft with screws

You can get them in brass or silver colored metal from

Witmer Coach Shop
1070 W Main St New Holland, PA 17557
(717) 656-3411

[Renae]

The short answer is you don’t use breeching on this type of cart. You use shaft stops, and really these are show carts only ever intended to be driven on level surfaces, such as in arenas. This type of cart in the breed show ring, where it is used most often, is never used with breeching.

Another piece of harness that is sometimes used with this type of cart when breeching is not used is thimbles. They are little cups that go on the end of the shaft and hoof to the back pad. Almost no one uses them anymore.

So either forego the breeching, find thimbles, or attempt to install footman loops (warning, it may will be difficult). But don’t continue to use the leather trace loop as a place to put breeching, they very easily pull off the cart.

[Tee]

Yeah, that was my concern too. I don’t plan on showing (breed or otherwise) with him, at least not anytime soon. I think there may be holes already for these - I’ll have to look tonight. Thanks!

[Renae]

As far as your harness if you were ever going to show in Classic Pleasure Driving at a Morgan show you would need to add a running martingale.

Here are some examples of Morgan Classic Pleasure Driving Horses to a basket cart such as you have:
http://www.jbennett.com/images/drive_jbells53.jpg
http://www.nysmhs.org/wpimages/wp17d57a62_06.png
http://www.morganhorse.com/upload/photos/photo_gallery_lacy_s_high_fashion_magic_classicpleasure.jpg

[Christa_P]

You can pick up footman loops at many hardware stores, they sell them as strap loops. Look in the same area as eye screws and other fasteners. Attaching them shouldn’t be a big deal, just get 3/4" wood screws and use a small drill for a pilot hole.

[buck22]

I drove my morgan in a cart similar to yours when I was just starting out, and boy I loved it, I loved being so open and close to the ground and free!

The previous owner of my jog cart installed footman loops for the breeching - but they are very, erm, unconventional, :lol: She used the cart for breaking on many different sized animals and wanted to be able to move the loops to fit, so she used a heavy gauge worm-screw pipe clamp and a heavy ring, so she could adjust the placement easily. A clever solution for her needs, but I don’t know if it would be recommended safety wise.

[Tee]

Renae, thanks for the pictures! My question is this: I don’t see thimbles or breeching (unless I am just missing it) in those three pics. What’s stopping the cart?

Thank you all for the helpful information, it’s very much appreciated.

[Drive_NJ]

the other thing you can use is a TUG STOP
its like a plate with a perpendicular post sticking out
it goes where the tug rests on the shaft

much more expensive that footman loops but still cheap
when you stop - the tug hits the post and it acts like a breeching stop

If you are not going to show - I say just get the footman loops and use those - also gets the horse used to breeching and works from the back - not from the saddle

I would probably raise your breeching a bit
I was taught that it goes at the fullest part of the hip to get the most oomph from the horse on stopping
too low and it cups the horses leg and can interfere
too high and it can slide up under the tail

[Field_of_Dreams_Mini]

Yup, you need footman’s loops. I need to put some on my Jerald showcart so I can use it off level ground. I wouldn’t really want to go four-wheeling with it but I have gone in parades and breeching would make me feel a bit better. Mine does have the shaft stops on it, but then all the weight of stopping is transferred to his back via the tugs.

[Renae]

[QUOTE=Tee;7532538]
Renae, thanks for the pictures! My question is this: I don’t see thimbles or breeching (unless I am just missing it) in those three pics. What’s stopping the cart?

Thank you all for the helpful information, it’s very much appreciated. :)[/QUOTE]

A shaft stop aka tug stop. Scroll down, they’re at the bottom of this page http://www.bennettstack.com/jeraldwheels&tires.htm

If your cart does not have shaft stops it was probably made back in the day when thimbles were more commonly used.

Also notice the price of proper replacement wheels! Many people get cheap with older Jerald type carts and replace the wheels with bicycle wheels rather than proper wire spoke cart wheels or also acceptable motorcycle wheels. Bicycle wheels are too light weight for the job and eventually will give out under the stress and could cause and accident when they do.

[Tee]

EEP!!! That’s dang near what I paid for the cart! I do want to do some upgrades on it (dashboard, needs some touch up paint, probably other stuff I haven’t thought of yet) over time. I really do like the cart tho. Wish I knew what brand it was.

[buck22]

I missed where you said you needed wheels, but yes, they proper wheels are incredibly expensive. Big Dee’s is a bit cheaper though but they are strictly racing, nothing fancy.

I like the cart too, have a blast with it!!!

[Renae]

[QUOTE=Tee;7534080]
EEP!!! That’s dang near what I paid for the cart! I do want to do some upgrades on it (dashboard, needs some touch up paint, probably other stuff I haven’t thought of yet) over time. I really do like the cart tho. Wish I knew what brand it was.[/QUOTE]

It’s probably a Jerald. It’s a model they don’t make anymore, you can take the basket off and add an apron and change it from a pleasure cart to a roadster bike (that’s what the stirrups on it are for). And yes, Morgans are shown Roadster
http://www.morganhorse.com/upload/photos/photo_gallery_bob_klein_dini_bk_nemhs_12_77.jpg
http://youtu.be/mQSO4IhMZ4o

Because of the model of cart that it is I would guess that it is from the '70s or '80s.

[red_mares]

I’m trying to figure out why you need to replace the wheels. 70s to 80s isn’t new, but unless they have broken spokes or are very badly rusted, I’m not sure why you’d replace them.

I have a 1940s wire wheeled Jerald that has original wheels, well 1 original wheel :winkgrin:. My other bike is also a 70s-80s vintage with originals, even after going over a fence. Unless there’s evidence of a wreck, or more likely someone backed into to it with a tractor, I wouldn’t bother replacing them. Jerald wheels are pretty well designed and deceptively tough.

Clean them up, wipe them with some silver Rub’n’Buff, and you’re good to go.

Now if you want to switch to wood wheels to do ADS stuff that’s another story. And a whole 'nother price point.

[Tee]

Ah, you guys are just a wealth of information - thank you!!!

As for the wheels, I don’t plan to replace them right away. They are sound and will work for what I need. Were I to look at getting into showing, I’d probably consider it.

[Tee]

Bumping this up, since we are now considering showing - does anyone know where I can find horse-sized thimbles. So far all I can seem to find online are mini or pony.

And thanks you again for the previous help!

[luvmyhackney]

World Champion would have them.

[China_Doll]

I would use tug stops not thimbles.