Breed or buy?

[LiveTheDream]

Condolences on your loss.

Having gone through a heartbreaking experience with an AQHA mare and the appendix progeny, I’m going to relate my situation in case it’s helpful to you. My experience also pulls in a lot of the advice posters previously shared.

I chose to breed my foundation bred AQHA/IBHA mare in hopes of a top hunter. While that sounds like a fools errand, I didn’t think it was at the time. (Although with distance, I can now understand why others may have believed so.) She was experienced broodmare, top quality all arounder. We won more than our fair share. To this day she had the nicest extended trot I’ve ever seen. And most importantly, this would be a repeat cross and the full sibling was exactly what I wanted, except I wanted a filly. (The dam was retired early due to an injury seemingly related to an earlier accident.) The TB sire came from race lines that also produced some nice performance horses, both TB and AQHA.

The resulting baby ended up half the size of the sibling. But even at 15.2, he had a 15’ stride and a back cracking jump as long as the fence was at least 3’. Could he had made it around a local/regional GP in his heyday? Possibly. But even if he could have done it physically, he didn’t have the mental fortitude required. I won’t describe him as a GP horse because he wasn’t.

The current horse is a GP prospect. She’s by an international GP horse out of a rather talented dam, also sired by an international GP horse. This youngster is confident, beautiful, and has legs for miles. The question isn’t whether she can jump or how high (don’t ask me how I know this ), it’s how high I want to jump. And I prefer not to jump fences I can walk under, TYVM. Adult ammy here.

I love the little guy. No one expected him to be all that talented as he certainly doesn’t look the part. But my emotional side really drove the bus on that one and it’s been quite the journey.

The youngster is the kind of horse that was suggested I buy the first time around. Why didn’t I? Because at that time it was much less expensive for me to breed for such a high quality horse because I already had a phenomenal mare. (I did a lot of research before arriving at that conclusion.) More recently, I have a different horse network that made this youngster possible.

So as someone else recommended, figure out what is most important to you. If you choose to buy a GP prospect, consider utilizing the network being offered. As you may already know, there are many experienced horse people on this forum, many of whom are respected industry professionals. They just might be able to help you find that which you seek.

Best of luck to you and best wishes for a healing ‍:adhesive_bandage:.

[skydy]

No sweat. The quoting function sometimes makes it difficult to know who is saying what.

[BITSA]

@Demerara_Stables

The problem with buying (as I’ve learned) is that what I’m looking for just isn’t out there. Most breeders keep their really good fillies so when I call someone up they show me what’s second rate. Maybe I need an agent that’s well known, but even then it took me 3 years of serious searching to find this 3yo. If there are unstarted fillies out there that are 8-10 movers, 9-10 jumpers, but most importantly with a good brain, I’d love to see them, but I just don’t think they’re out there in the numbers that people are saying they are.

As someone who bred out of emotion (not at all saying you are doing this, I did) after having to euthanize my amazing 1.45 mare, I will say only breed if you will be happy with whatever you get, whether that be a 2’6 hunter or 1.50 jumper. If you want something specific find it because there are zero guarantees when you breed. I wanted a piece of my mare because I was heartbroken. So while I hope my colt is an amateur-friendly 1.40+ horse (I bred my mare using ICSI to a 1.60 stallion) I will love him even if he ends up being a pasture ornament (and I am lucky I can keep mine at home until he goes into full training in 4 years). So I think what you do depends on what you really want.

There are a lot of foal and young horse auctions from Europe, can you import one? I also know people who have bought foals there and kept them there until they are 3 and then imported them because its so much cheaper to keep them in Europe.

Also, some stallion sites like New Normandy Farm where I bought my semen say what traits the stallions are supposed to pass on and what mare types might be a good fit.

[OutsidersOpinion]

Fellow (well used to be-now I’m in that awkward stage of still youngish?) young pro here, who did this jig 7 years ago.

I purchased a 4yo, and am now competing in the 1.50 FEI GPs successfully, have gotten FEI ribbons in Wellington, won a Grand Prix and several welcomes this year on that horse. He came from a very well known breeding farm, and he was trash to them due to a lot of quirks. Now I get serious offers on him quite often, and as they put it, he was “bred to be a Sunday horse”. He is Cardento x Accord II.

I had the option to buy this horse or breed my children’s jumper to a 1.60 horse and hope. She has had several top quality foals that have all gone on to be useful and athletic, but none are GP horses.

I think I will always buy vs breed for a few reasons; you know their conformation, their movement, and a general style, and even yearlings you can get a good read on their temperament. Breeding is a gamble on all of that every single time.

Personal anecdote aside, I would not consider breeding your mare for any type of jumper prospect. Her jumping style in all 3 pictures is less than stellar, and while you did not provide us with a conformation picture, I am going to assume based on her front end, her shoulders are not what are needed to jump big jumps. She’s adorable, and I believe you when you say she has a lovely brain, but body wise it would be near impossible to get a horse that could jump 1.20 out of her, much less 1.40+.

I had a conversation with another professional last night who has been to World Cup finals etc, and she was adamant the Dam’s line is more important than the Sire’s line. So breeding your mare to a 1.60 horse unfortunately would not help you much at all.

Good luck, and there are hundreds of foals in Europe that do match what you are looking for.

[Warmblood1]

@OutsidersOpinion

she was adamant the Dam’s line is more important than the Sire’s line

Couldn’t agree more. The most experienced breeders and horse people have taught me the same.

And just out of curiosity, has anyone known any appendixes or QH crosses to be successful at GP? I have a QH that could jump a single GP fence but could never jump a course or hold up to the work. That’s the closest thing I can think of.

[libgrrl]

Threes and Sevens? I know, I know – that was ages ago…

[OutsidersOpinion]

I believe (could be wrong) that @supershorty628 did. Actually had quite a long career if I’m remembering correctly

[supershorty628]

@OutsidersOpinion

I believe (could be wrong) that @supershorty628 did. Actually had quite a long career if I’m remembering correctly

She was a TB, sorry!

[Fiesta01]

Such a cutie. Loved his hang time.

[clanter]

@OutsidersOpinion

I think I will always buy vs breed for a few reasons; you know their conformation, their movement, and a general style, and even yearlings you can get a good read on their temperament. Breeding is a gamble on all of that every single time.

we recently lost a young horse, the breeder offered first choice of the new crop of foals. There were five foals born, all nice but sure was easier to pick the one that was wanted rather than if we had to try to breed a replacement

[YankeeLawyer]

There are several reasons why I would strongly recommend buying over breeding, many of which have been stated by other posters. But one of the major reasons I would not breed in your situation is that there is zero chance I would risk a 20 year old maiden “heart” horse by breeding her.

You will save time and money by buying and have a greater chance of finding the right horse for your goals.