Breeder’s Cup 2019

um no. but I think its unfair to say that veterinarians out of vet school are clueless or its unfair to look at a young vet and classify their experience based on their looks. Maybe those young vets hired by the breeders cup have been working under the wings of very specialized vets in their respected fields and are very reputable. A vet doesn’t need to be 50+ years old to know what they are doing. Don’t be short sighted.

The vets hired by the breeders cup to assess horses were done so for a specific job. To look over every horse entered in the field knowledgeably and with experience to make educated decisions on whether or not the horse could race. The breeders Cup went into Santa Anita knowing that they had a lot on the line. The fate of racing in California might be resting on what occurred at the Breeders Cup. Said vets are looking over some of the highest valued horses in the industry. Why on earth do you think they would hire regular joe from the local animal hospital to look them over.

Despite the above; the vets assessing the horses are not the issue. They did their job and they did it well. Several horses were vet scratched for soundness issues that were found.I cant speak to why MG grooms unsoundness at the jog on the track was not seen. Its obvious in the video. But its too late to rewind now.

Does no one want to address Aiden O’Briens comments after one of his was vet scratched? “She jogged up just as she always does. But we have to play by the rules here”. So does he not want to address the fact that his horse had a soundness issue at the jog that was obvious enough for a group of vets to concur that she was unsound? Or does he just want to throw shade that the vets scratched his horse and he thinks otherwise about her condition? Trainers are NOT vets. I would hope that Aiden would return to his stable and have a full workup done on the horse to ensure her health and well being. He should be thankful a group of trained professionals saw something perhaps he didn’t and could’ve saved her life on race day. This is the type of attitude the industry does NOT need considering the current climate in the United States around the fatalities and the current climate that the Breeders Cup was trying to emulate at their event. The horse should be paramount, always.

No one wants to address how many starts MG made this year and whether or not that strain put on his skeleton combined with training ultimately caused his demise.

Instead we want to point fingers at 30 hired Veterinarian professionals because they simply look like they are young which apparently means they are inexperienced/ dumb/ clueless. This message board continues to prove that those within the industry are operating with sunglasses on. Until you start looking internally at potential causes for the fatalities piling up (not just at Santa Anita, but nation-wide), nothing will change. Don’t put the blame on the 30 educated equine veterinarians tasked by the Breeders Cup with ensuring said horses are safe to walk in the starting gate. As far as I’m concerned; the breeders cup is footing the bill for vets to cover what trainers back in the barn should already be doing with their veterinarians before their horse enters the starting gate. Some do. But not all.

I see horses on CANTER sale videos every week that are dead lame in a leg and their equibase charts show them still training throughout the week and still racing. Why is that? Why is a dead lame horse at the jog still racing and training throughout the week? I agree with @ASB Stars that horse racing should certainly be just as stringent regardless of the level of the horse.

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I think that track vets by and large are absolutely not looking out for the best interest of the horse. They are doing what the trainers want and really what the industry needs- filling race cards and getting horses running. I think bringing in young vets or non track vets can be good in that they may be willing to be honest and impartial-not dependent on the racetrack for their living and not business as usual.

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Here is another video of Mongolian Groom which was view by anonymous vets after the incident and they concurrently agree he was unsound in the videos that were taken leading up to the race.

https://www.xbtv.com/video/workout/mongolian-groom-jogged-at-santa-anita-park-on-october-26th-2019/

Here is an updated article on Mongolian Groom and the vet work that was done prior to the race. its very interesting
https://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/breeders-cup-mum-on-mongolian-grooms-exam-history/

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I realize that no one wants to get on board with me on this, but I think that the trainer probably leaned as hard as he could to get this poor colt into that race- after they spent 200K to supplement. If they walk away- the colt is still alive, but they lose the money. He rolled the dice, and the colt lost.

There is no way a group of Vets, who should be reasonably educated on lameness, should have missed that. None. So, somebody pushed, or the Vets are stupid. Take your pick.

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its worthy of note that the colts owner is responsible for the illegal smuggling of furs from Mongolia and into Russia. theres plenty of cover up going on in this scenario. and people who are apparently quite skilled at it.

Didn’t Chad Brown lean pretty hard on the powers that be after the scratch of Thais? Where did that get him?

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/236775/vets-scratch-unsound-thais-from-bc-filly-mare-turf

And do you know who Peter Brant is? You can’t get much more 1 %.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Brant

One of the fastest sprinters in the country, Imperial Hint was scratched the week of a $2 million race in which he would have been one of the favorites.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac…ers-cup-sprint

Fleeting flew in from Ireland for one of the world’s most powerful trainers. She got scratched.

But those Mongolian guys. They must have special mojo.

(Yeah I am being sarcastic)

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Zero chance there was any “leaning” involved. More likely is someone just plain screwed up by letting this one fall through the cracks that were supposed to be sealed up and they are trying to figure out who.

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And I don’t read any “whining” into Aidan O’Brien’s statement on Fleeting’s being scratched; it sounded to me as though he was well-aware of the protocols in place before he ever loaded anyone on a plane. He didn’t expect his horse to not pass the vet team’s inspections, obviously, and was disappointed. Expected, but he certainly didn’t kick up a fuss.

Todd Pletcher’s take on what happened to Mongolian Groom:

In this week’s TDN Writers’ Room Podcast, future Hall of Fame trainer Todd Pletcher didn’t mince words when talking about the breakdown of Mongolian Groom (Hightail) in the Breeders’ Cup Classic and the rash of breakdowns that have emboldened politicians and animal rights activists. Calling the current situation a “crisis,” Pletcher implored the racing industry to do whatever it takes to cut down on the number of equine fatalities.

Here are his comments: “I don’t think there’s any acceptable answer. The reality is we have to do better. We have to do better starting from the birth of these horses. I think a lot of the issues are sort of pointed toward the racetrack, pointed toward the trainers. The more we look at it these situations can begin back literally at the birth of these foals, how they’re prepped and treated and presented at yearling sales and 2-year-old in training sales. We have do better in every single phase. We all know that there’s nothing we can do that is absolutely going to prevent it from happening, but I do think we can dramatically reduce it and every effort has to be made to do that. We’ve made some strides in the right direction. But we can’t back off now. We have to continue to work harder and do better at this. It’s a crisis. In racing, a lot of times, we get through one crisis and then we kind of coast. We can’t let our foot off the pedal. We have to get this thing sorted out and do a lot better than we’re doing now.”

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/pletcher-on-mongolian-groom-tragedy-we-have-to-do-better/

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My guess is that no vet saw the horse jog with a rider on his back after he galloped? My track vet also thinks it should have been caught, but without knowing the protocols of which vets were doing what thing on what day, it’s hard to assign blame. This Is all new - this is the first year they’ve done this. Obviously there are holes, but you don’t know where the holes are until things go wrong. And possibly they did prevent some catastrophes with the scratches.

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I’m curious how breeders feel about his statements. I ask because it feels a little finger-pointy to me, although I don’t disagree that prevention starts at birth.

I have my own very strong opinions on how we could do better, most of which I’ve shared here at one time or another…

I think the hardest thing is facilitating change. People don’t like change.

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Thanks so much! Yes I am
aware of these issues generally and the breeders specifically.

Ironically , these horses weren’t supplemented. They were the crème de la crème and they were spun. That’s the good news.

i’m not asking anyone to agree with me. I’m just giving you my point of view. I tend to follow the money on these kinds of things.

@ASB Stars Would you agree following the money also includes not jeopardizing relationships with powerful Europeans who have literally flown across the world specifically for the race? The BC is dependent on these Euros coming over to make these races the marquee events that they are billed as. While they may not have paid a supplemental fee, risking their business is huge. Yet they still had vet scratches.

Also, I believe the bulk of the supplemental fee is added to the purse. I don’t think there is a big profit margin, although I could be wrong.

I don’t think his finger pointing is a bad thing. The sales have become an end goal all their own and many TB yearlings are currently raised with a view toward maximizing their sales potential, rather than their racing potential.

If you bubble wrap a foal nearly from birth, restrict its opportunities to rough-and-tumble with its peers, manage its turnout so it never sees bad weather, overfeed it, swim the heck out of it to build muscle, and use surgery to correct every imperfection, chances are you’re not going to raise a racehorse. You will, however, in most cases get yourself a yearling that brings lots of money at a sale.

I was talking to a friend in September who buys 10-12 pretty pricey yearlings every year to race. He said he’d realized that the more money he spent on a yearling (higher cost translating to “better” looking, meaning they look more like 2yos than yearlings) the less likely they were to ever make a single start. Well, duh.

And yet buyers still want the over-sized, over-muscled, over-fat horses who never had the chance to build strong bone, or run with their buddies, or learn to compete by bouncing around a big field in all kinds of weather. And they’re willing to pay a premium for them. And then those premium horses end up with the top trainers. The system is upside down.

So yes, I think Todd Pletcher had a point.

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OK. Just for the sake of discussion what do you think of the records of those horses who were flown across the pond to compete? I ask this as in comparison to Mongolian Groom? Did any of them even need to be supplemented? Or were their records such that they were standing on their own merit and they had gotten in based upon their record?

It sounds like there are some major misconceptions here.

You don’t supplement because of race record. Horses are nominated to the Breeders Cup races as weanlings by being by BC nominated stallions and paying a fee. If the horse wasn’t nominated as a weanling, you have to pay the MUCH larger fee to supplement them at racing age, which is what happened with Mongolian Groom. He was by a “cheap” stallion that was not nominated at the time.

All horses have to pay a massive entry fee to participate in the races: $150,000. Unless, you win one of the “win and you’re in” races, in which case your entry fee is waived and your entry is guaranteed.

If a race were to be oversubscribed, there is a point system for acceptance into the race based on graded stakes wins.

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Mongolian Groom got into the BC Classic on his own merits by winning a “Win and You’re In” G1 race. The reason he had to pay supplemental money was because he had not previously been Breeders Cup nominated–which has nothing to do with his ability as a racehorse.

Many, if not most, TBs are nominated as foals by their breeders. MG was not–and if you miss that early window, the price to nominate becomes pretty prohibitive.

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I am in full agreement with everything you have said. But for the sake of conversation… does any of this apply to an $11,000 yearling by a $2,500 stallion? I’m surprised he was consigned as a yearling in the first place; he must have been an incredible specimen. Then again, despite a modest pedigree, he did have deep pockets behind him from the start…

Like my mare. BC nominated and never set foot on a track (no lip tat). But, inexpensive when nominated early, pricey if done later…

Makes no sense. He had to be supplemented because at no point in time prior to that did anyone think he was a Breeders Cup horse. So following the money, how much did it cost to get 30 vets from all over the place to go in on this profitable scheme? It’s ridiculous to think there is any kind of money motive.