Breeders, when do you start to use your colts to cover your mares? 2 yrs old, 3 yrs old?
What has been your experiences if you do use them as 2 year olds?
THANK YOU!
Preferably…I like to see studs covering mares that have an impressive show career that proves they’re an exceptional specimen for their breed in conformation, mind and long-term physical soundness.
That they have been proven to be good-natured, trainable, athletic, and good for more than simply producing semen.
That’s just MY personal preference. It’s a pet peeve of mine when people use a male horse for breeding just because it has testicles, without trying to make sure that the offspring it produces are going to be more valuable as working livestock/show horses, etc. than as a steak.
As much as I can respect what you are saying about waiting till they have proved themselves to you, I actually was hoping to get some advise from people with experience regarding the 2 yr olds or 3 yr olds.
I will sometimes do a couple of test breedings with a youngster that I’m keeping or have purchased as a youngster with the intention of using him. I use older, experienced mares (I’m handbreeding and not collecting at this point, nor pasture breeding with a youngster) that have shown patience with a bumbling, eager young boy who doesn’t know a flank from an armpit from where he’s supposed to go. A cranky mare with a green breeding stallion is not my idea of fun. There’s only me so at least one of the pair has to behave on their own.
I find it amazing to see the mental change ("I’m a GROWNUP!!) in the youngsters. I also find that they seem less frustrated when they have to be tied, trailered or even just penned next to mares…while they do now know what the mare thing is all about they have also learned there’s a time and place for it.
I find I don’t get attitude as much from youngsters trained to breed as youngsters as much as I do from older stallions without the early training…the older ones have sometimes shown that they think they know all they need to know and they don’t want to tolerate instruction/direction/guidance from a handler.
Another reason I do this is that a youngster that I’m going to stand in the future is going to miss a season or two or three for training and competition so these first couple of foals will the only ones he has on the ground for several years. IF he goes out and does very well there will be an immediate demand for offspring…and I’ll have the only ones available. It is indeed a marketing strategy for those foals. And for him…if he does very well (which can be after 2 or more years of training and showing) and then is bred it will be 3-4 years before those foals are ready to compete and show if he sires anything…a total of 6 or more years to know and get a market going for him. If I have foals that are 2-3 years a head of that time frame and they go out to do something then there is more market for him as a stallion than there would be if I waited and bred only after he competes and then wait another 3-4 years for those foals to prove his ability as a sire. This can, of course, backfire on you and you have several foals by a stallion that didn’t do anything spectacular and have to market them.
Tons of great information in there, thank you Coloredcowhorse!
[QUOTE=coloredcowhorse;5664426]
This can, of course, backfire on you and you have several foals by a stallion that didn’t do anything spectacular and have to market them.[/QUOTE]
This is what I was getting at - thanks for explaining it better than I did. :lol:
In other words - being that I don’t like risk…I wouldn’t breed a 2 year old.
[QUOTE=Char;5664463]
This is what I was getting at - thanks for explaining it better than I did. :lol:
In other words - being that I don’t like risk…I wouldn’t breed a 2 year old.[/QUOTE]
The fortunate thing is that there is almost always a market for those foals as trail riders or ranch horses even if their sire turns out to be a competitive dud.
If I spend a lot of $ and time getting him out there trained and shown and THEN breed him and he doesn’t sire well…I’ve charged stud fees (for several years) and have disappointed clients and my reputation is not so hot but we wouldn’t find that out for those 3-4 years after he starts at stud and that being 2-3 years after he starts training. Great competitors don’t always make great foals.
I could even see the situation where he isn’t so hot in competition (or gets a career ending injury) but his first couple of foals are easy to train, have good conformation etc and he could be a better sire than he is a competitor…if I went ONLY on his competitive record before breeding him I’d never know that.
AND of course there is the mare’s contribution as well…I’m selective about not only the age/attitude of mares for a youngster to “learn the business” with but they have to complement him in as many areas as possible as well…so he may only do well with those particular mares or those types of mares or those particular bloodlines…what makes a good “nick” isn’t always apparent.
more great info, thank you both. Char, I still respect what you said and understand what you are saying. I just needed to know more about the personality of the young colts who are used. I have heard differing opinions, not surprisingly as all horses and ponies are individuals, but this will be my “maiden” year, I’m just getting started with breeding, so I am trying to do it right. I am gathering as much info as possible to help me make a good decision! Again, thank you both.
Char, I am laughing right now because I can hear you saying “Oh great, her “maiden” breeding, now I am really worried!”
LOL
I dont even own a stallion yet, looking, but nothing yet, so these are all hypothetical questions!!!
I have two stallions and raised many colts and helped on a breeding farm years ago. At age 2, well they are pretty stupid. I look at my 2 year olds and think “They will grow up, and get a brain, they will grow up and get a brain”. I have a 2 year old colt right now and my Lord he’s the biggest DORK and he’s clueless he’s still intact. He’s getting cut next month.
Even for fillies, it’s a more rare 2 year old who can hold it all together in a highly excitable situation. Now put hormones into the mix.
Both of mine started to breed mares well into their 3rd year. This way all their ground manners etc, were in place. They knew what was expected of them and really it went very well. Both of mine are big boys (17 hands and 1500 pounds) and we breed in hand live cover so they have to mind their manners.
The toughest part with my younger stallion was getting him to slow down, not slam into the mare, and really just helping him get far enough up ON the mare to penetrate. Silly as it sounds, he needed assistance with his b/c he was sort of stupid about it. My older stallion figured it right out. My point here is
- They are all different and 2. Make sure you have plenty of help on hand, experienced help that is, no matter what age you breed the stallion.
Honestly, I wish more mare owners would spend the time teaching some manners to their mares! Mine know there’s but I have had more ill mannered mares here to breed.
[QUOTE=OverRabbitFarm;5664551]
Char, I am laughing right now because I can hear you saying “Oh great, her “maiden” breeding, now I am really worried!”
LOL
I dont even own a stallion yet, looking, but nothing yet, so these are all hypothetical questions!!![/QUOTE]
^^^ :lol: Sorry, I really wasn’t trying to squash your enthusiasm. Where I live, I’m surrounded by novice horse people who own horses, and breed just to breed.
Some are registered, some are pure but they don’t bother to register, some are mix breeds that make sense, some aren’t. Alot of them start breeding their colts as soon as they are physically mature enough and never break them or do anything with them other than breed - same with the mares.
It drives me crazy! Especially living so close to the Sugarcreek Auction, it really irritates me, knowing where many are going to end up. 
Most don’t give any thought to pedigree, confirmation, mind set, usefulness, demand, or anything else. They just think they can make a couple bucks selling youngsters for $100-$200 and call it good enough. :mad:
[QUOTE=classicsporthorses;5664570]
I have two stallions and raised many colts and helped on a breeding farm years ago. At age 2, well they are pretty stupid. I look at my 2 year olds and think “They will grow up, and get a brain, they will grow up and get a brain”. I have a 2 year old colt right now and my Lord he’s the biggest DORK and he’s clueless he’s still intact. He’s getting cut next month.
Honestly, I wish more mare owners would spend the time teaching some manners to their mares! Mine know there’s but I have had more ill mannered mares here to breed.[/QUOTE]
I think our differences in approach are partly differences in breeds as well. I breed stock type horse for events such as reining, cutting and reined cowhorse. Our horses are started on ground manners from the minute they hit the ground or at least by the time they are weaned. They begin serious ground training aimed at their event by the time they are a year old…it may not be a lot and it may not look like training but it is a program designed to teach a lot of what they will later get formally in an informal setting as foals as a way to introduce them to how to learn and that being handled/trained is part of their everyday life. They go to formal training sometimes as early as 20-22 months and are competing by late their three year old year (in events that take a year or more of training). AND they aren’t the size your guys are…full grown most of mine are 14.3 to 15 hands with some even less than that. AND they are different breeds…QH and Paints and very little TB in them so they, in general, have a somewhat less excitable nature…not guaranteed as there are some that ARE dumber than a box of rocks at that age but mostly they are already learning a lot of what their adult life is going to be.
I can’t agree more regarding mares and manners. I HATE unruly mares!
[QUOTE=coloredcowhorse;5664805]
I can’t agree more regarding mares and manners. I HATE unruly mares![/QUOTE]
Oh ya!!! :mad:
There is a breeder (WB) near me who always bred her 2 yr old stallions to a limited book. In hand breeding only – no shipped semen.
They were all handled by vets, so experienced people, but they would routinely cover 5-15 mares per season successfully.
My stallion had already pasture bred one mare at age 2 when I got him back (so that was not MY plan). He spent the winter turned out with 3 pregnant mares, then I bred his to 8-9 mares the season he turned 3 (and he was a July foal, so he wasn’t a full 3 yr old yet).
We had a 100% conception rate. However I DID manage the mares accordingly so he was never breeding more than 3-4 times a week and never more than once a day.
At times he was abit wild, to be honest, but that is because we had some “fixing” to do in terms of his manners.
But that was because the stallion had almost no real ground training from ages 8 mos to 28 months or so of age.
There really is no one answer to this question. It is going to depend entirely upon the individual animal. Some may be quite ready and able to breed a few mares at the age of two, while others are not yet ready at four.
The answer therefore is “look at your colt”. Does he look and behave in a mature manner? Then he may be ready to breed. Does he look obviously immature? Give him some time.
There are some dangers in breeding a colt too young. If a colt is overbred as a youngster, he will be more likely to develop aberrant behaviours, which might include aggression towards mares, or even self-mutilation. Another possible sequela of breeding too many mares at a young age is that the stallion will refuse to breed when older - I knew a woman years ago that bred 20 mares live cover to her Cleveland Bay stallion as a two year-old. All excited at the prospect of making money, she had lots of mares booked to him at three and pulled him out to breed the first, which he looked at and said “no, I don’t think so - I did that last year…” and never bred another mare again!
How many is too many? Well, that’s another difficult question, because unfortunately there’s no real way of telling until it’s too late. If your colt shows reluctance to breed, then you’ve bred one mare too many…
Another important point to be aware of when starting a colt breeding is that the first few breeding experiences will set a pattern of behaviour for the rest of his breeding life. If you introduce him to the mare in a rushed, disorganized manner, he will tend to be rushed and disorganized forever. Do it right the first few times, and you will set a good set of parameters. It’s a lot easier to get it right from the beginning than it is to correct the behaviour at a later date.
So I’m going to end the way I started this response - by not answering the question! 
I will however offer some advice:
Be cautious, be patient, and don’t rush - either into breeding him, or in the manner of handling when you do finally breed him.
Good luck.
