As fodder for the “soundness stemming from nurture vs. nature debate”, what kinds of measures are commonly used on the track to help prevent hoof injuries? I’m familiar with most practices for above the hoof soundness, but other than a poultice and decent shoeing, I’m drawing a blank on pre-injury methods. Are most supplements like Farriers’s Formula and Shoer’s Friend allowed (I can’t see why not, but track rules are different from h/j)? Are they given?
[QUOTE=YankeeLawyer;3255806]
Actually, I believe that is incorrect. My understanding is that horses of any color can get melanomas; grays just have a much higher incidence of the condition. In any event, the foal with one gray parent has a 50% chance of being gray.[/QUOTE]
Other horses can get tumors but I don’t know of any that have gray horse melanoma but grays. They might get regular melanoma (which is a different disease). Grey horse melanomas are caused by the grey mutation which removes melanin from the hair follicle and redeposits it elsewhere in the body either internally (where it can be harmless or kill by strangling vital organs or blood supplies) or externally where it is usually unsightly but not life threatening unless it ulcerates and won’t heal or blocks needed orifices. Grey horse melanoma is actually a benign tumor.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;3258327]
Well if that is true then why is there a trend toward TBs with small feet and very fine bones? It’s not as though people on BBs such as this make up the commonplace existance of such OTTBs. Breeders produce such horses because they might hold up long enough on the racetrack for the owner to make a profit.[/QUOTE]
I think there is sometimes a big disconnect between what people “know” because they’ve heard other people say something is true, and what is actually true. I find it shocking that you think breeders don’t care if horses break down as long as they get their profit from them first–that simply isn’t true among the many, many breeders I know.
As to the “trend toward TBs with small feet and very fine bones” again, it’s not what I see around me in central Kentucky where thousands of TBs are produced each year. Here’s a sampling of our foals from the last two years, all of them sired by the kinds of stallions that produce the racehorses you’re denigrating:
by Broken Vow
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/Bea-3-25-08.jpg
by Lemon Drop Kid
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/HotShot-4-20-08-a.jpg
by Grand Slam
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/Gee-4-20-08.jpg
By Cherokee Run
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/Sophie-4-30-07.jpg
by Limehouse
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/Peanut-3-9-07.jpg
This is what many, if not most, racehorses look like in central KY. Sure, not every breeding turns out the way the breeder planned; but the majority of breeders really are trying to produce both speed and soundness. Why should they want to settle for anything less?
[QUOTE=LaurieB;3258493]
Sure, not every breeding turns out the way the breeder planned; but the majority of breeders really are trying to produce both speed and soundness. Why should they want to settle for anything less?[/QUOTE]
Aw, c’mon, Laurie!! They don’t do that because what would people have to bitch and moan about?!? :winkgrin: Facts can be so darn inconvenient.
BTW, I’ll take two of that Grand Slam baby. Yum. :yes:
Ditto Beezer/ the Grand Slam. Want want want!
Beezer, wanna go halves…
[QUOTE=Frog;3259228]
Ditto Beezer/ the Grand Slam. Want want want!
Beezer, wanna go halves…
:)[/QUOTE]
LOL, thanks! If you like her, you should see the dam. Here she is with her 2007 colt:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/Rumble-1-29-07.jpg
What if he does not have the “goods”? (after all this…)
[QUOTE=grayarabs;3259342]
What if he does not have the “goods”? (after all this…)[/QUOTE]
I guess all the naysayers will have to find something else to whine about.
[QUOTE=LaurieB;3258493]
I think there is sometimes a big disconnect between what people “know” because they’ve heard other people say something is true, and what is actually true. I find it shocking that you think breeders don’t care if horses break down as long as they get their profit from them first–that simply isn’t true among the many, many breeders I know.
As to the “trend toward TBs with small feet and very fine bones” again, it’s not what I see around me in central Kentucky where thousands of TBs are produced each year. Here’s a sampling of our foals from the last two years, all of them sired by the kinds of stallions that produce the racehorses you’re denigrating:
by Broken Vow
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/Bea-3-25-08.jpg
by Lemon Drop Kid
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/HotShot-4-20-08-a.jpg
by Grand Slam
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/Gee-4-20-08.jpg
By Cherokee Run
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/Sophie-4-30-07.jpg
by Limehouse
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/Peanut-3-9-07.jpg
This is what many, if not most, racehorses look like in central KY. Sure, not every breeding turns out the way the breeder planned; but the majority of breeders really are trying to produce both speed and soundness. Why should they want to settle for anything less?[/QUOTE]
Sorry, hon, there’s no disconnect between what I have seen come off the track in recent years and what I post on a bulletin board.
Whenever will TB breeders stop whining that what they are producing is good enough??
[QUOTE=LaurieB;3258493]
I think there is sometimes a big disconnect between what people “know” because they’ve heard other people say something is true, and what is actually true. I find it shocking that you think breeders don’t care if horses break down as long as they get their profit from them first–that simply isn’t true among the many, many breeders I know.
As to the “trend toward TBs with small feet and very fine bones” again, it’s not what I see around me in central Kentucky where thousands of TBs are produced each year. Here’s a sampling of our foals from the last two years, all of them sired by the kinds of stallions that produce the racehorses you’re denigrating:
by Broken Vow
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/Bea-3-25-08.jpg
by Lemon Drop Kid
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/HotShot-4-20-08-a.jpg
by Grand Slam
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/Gee-4-20-08.jpg
By Cherokee Run
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/Sophie-4-30-07.jpg
by Limehouse
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/LaurienB/Peanut-3-9-07.jpg
This is what many, if not most, racehorses look like in central KY. Sure, not every breeding turns out the way the breeder planned; but the majority of breeders really are trying to produce both speed and soundness. Why should they want to settle for anything less?[/QUOTE]
Sorry Laurie going to have to disagree with you there.
Been around Irish horses and Irishbred TBs all my life.
Americanbred TBs have NOTHING on the Irish (or heck most Europeanbred TBs) when it comes to bone and substance.
That’s interesting because Irish racehorses pretty much share the same genetics as Laurie’s foals. The big Irish classics were run last week. The Irish 2000G was won by an American bred Henrythenavigator
http://www.pedigreequery.com/henrythenavigator
the 1000G by Irish bred Halfway to Heaven
http://www.pedigreequery.com/halfway+to+heaven2
and the Gold Cup by Duke of Marmalade
http://www.pedigreequery.com/duke+of+marmalade2
Now look at Big Brown and Curlin
http://www.pedigreequery.com/big+brown
http://www.pedigreequery.com/curlin
A lot of the same names like Mr Prospector, Danzig, Raise A Native, Nureyev etc in both countries.
Here’s a scary thought - Who really cares about Big BHe’rown’s breeding future? He’s a 3 yr old that has never been tested because he had the fortune to be born in a year when no other stand-out was. He has had no Hard Spun, Street Sense, or Curlin knocking at his door challenging him to be better than his last race. Not to take ANYTHING away from 8 Belles, but does it mean any thing that a filly was trouncing 18 of the best 3 yr olds anywhere? And NOT in record time? Big Brown will join the ranks of all the other “great” 3 yr olds that fill the breeding sheds after racing 1 or 2 years. You want to talk breeding? Show me a great race horse that ran sound for 4 or 5 years or longer against the toughest competition AND is now a PROVEN sire. Then and only then will I be impressed. Also, what about racing Big Brown into his 4 yr old year and having a match race with Curlin?
Ok.
[QUOTE=Dazednconfused;3255812]
Yes, you are :rolleyes: Usually one takes a nod at rideability when they ride sporthorses. To say a three year old racehorse is “rideable” based on those standards is ludicrous, and secondly, it’s darn near irrelevant in a race horse - it’s who gets across the finish line first, not how easily he does it for the rider. And even then, how would you ever determine how “rideable” he is from a few clips on TV? :lol:[/QUOTE]
I’m pretty sure most people picked up what she meant by the term “rideable”. I don’t see what is ludicrous about that statement, and I definitely don’t see how it is irrelevant in a race horse. You just confirmed my original opinion of you and that was after a few cocktails.
You seriously don’t think a horse’s rideability or adjustability has to do with who gets across the finish line first? I’m sure in a 20 horse field the jockey does nothing but hang on right?
[QUOTE=Laurierace;3255327]
Are there REALLY people posting here on this message board who can look themselves in the mirror and say that they own a horse who has never been beaten, who has easily won the first two legs of the triple crown and is considered a lock to win the Belmont. But you will not take the 50 million and stand him at stud because you can’t bear the thought of some poor bastard having to go through the hell that you are going through now. The hell of watching your horse suffer through glue on shoes and quarter crack patches. The horror you wouldn’t wish on any horse.
Give me a freaking break. This is one of the soundest triple crown horses in decades. We only know about the problems he does have because his trainer couldn’t shut the hell up if you used a tongue tie and a figure eight on him. Good thing Lukas could keep his mouth shut, that would have kept half the country awake a night.[/QUOTE]
I don’t have a dog in this fight, and I lurk at this board, so I don’t know from nuthin, but I swear I want to be you when I grow up!! 
Again , I propose my test of “rideability.” Take your (and this is a pure hypothetical) totally fit 3 year old Warmblood. And 19 of his peers. Put them out on a track with jockeys riding short. Bring on 100,000+ screaming and mostly inebriated fans. And a band. Parade them up past the stands. If you’re still on, put them in the starting gate and let them race. Then pull them up and canter in a mannerly fashion back to the finish area and pull up in front of the cheering crowd.
And that’s not rideable? I saw more horses being “unrideable” on the track in an afternoon of Dressage at Saratoga than I ever see when they are racing…
OK LaurieB, I will let you keep your filly, but I shall confiscate the mare. What a pretty face on her too. Deal?:yes:
As far as the breeding… yes, we will all wait for that Triple Crown winner who races for 5 years.
Wait. Horses who race for 5 years do so because they have no value elsewhere, not because the stallions at stud would fall apart if asked for one more race. They are at stud because the races they have won have been outstanding, and they have consistently proven themselves to be at the top of their class. And whatever anyone says about Big Brown’s competition (other than Affirmed, how many Triple Crown winners beat horses during those 3 races whose names you can remember now?), the horse has proven all of that and more.
[QUOTE=Frog;3261539]
OK LaurieB, I will let you keep your filly, but I shall confiscate the mare. What a pretty face on her too. Deal?:yes:
As far as the breeding… yes, we will all wait for that Triple Crown winner who races for 5 years.
Wait. Horses who race for 5 years do so because they have no value elsewhere, not because the stallions at stud would fall apart if asked for one more race. They are at stud because the races they have won have been outstanding, and they have consistently proven themselves to be at the top of their class. And whatever anyone says about Big Brown’s competition (other than Affirmed, how many Triple Crown winners beat horses during those 3 races whose names you can remember now?), the horse has proven all of that and more.[/QUOTE]
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! My horse is in his 5th year of racing. I trail ride and work cattle on him when we’re not racing. I ride him bareback with a rope halter around the backside at the track. PLEASE DON’T TELL HIM HE’S ONLY RACING BECAUSE HE HAS NO VALUE ELSEWHERE!!!:eek:
LaurieB those foals are TOTAL MUFFINS.
How DARE you waste them on the TRACK when they should be in Georgia learning to be proper little hunters!:lol:
Absolutely GORGEOUS foals and the mare is lovely you posted as well.
[QUOTE=EventerAJ;3253959]
I had an interesting chat with some farriers yesterday. They work on all sorts of horses, from sales yearlings to broodmares to sport/racehorses. They agreed that MOST of the typical “bad TB feet” we all complain about are MAN-MADE problems.
It starts with the sales, they said. Sales agents and buyers want “pretty feet,” and almost all of the yearlings wear shoes. Sometimes the wall gets rasped way too much, just to have that clean, compact look to the foot. So the horses’ feet take some abuse as yearlings… then come the 2y/o sales. Pounding pounding on those small, thin feet… once again over-rasped to “look pretty” for the buyers during the sale. By the time a horse survives the 2 y/o sale, his feet are weaker. Add in more rigorous training, and the stress of galloping which pulls shoes out to the toe… and you get bad feet that are very difficult to recover.
This was how the farriers described it… quite the eye-opener for me.[/QUOTE]
This really annoys me - if this is true, why can’t they just stop? Is it really that important to have pretty feet at the sales? So unfortunate.
