Breeding Help Please

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=vdowning13;8938321]
I REALLY want to breed with frozen because most of the stallions I like only offer frozen, but the last time we tried to breed her with frozen, she would not settle down enough to take. It may be worth it for me to try though.[/QUOTE]

Yes, you really need a good vet. Make sure she is clean. But a lot of mares have an inflammation response with the frozen so you have to do the best to manage that. A very experienced vet is critical. I wouldn’t go expensive but might try once with frozen and then switch to fresh cooled if she doesn’t catch.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;8938299]
In defence of Riverman: I have a Riverman granddaughter the I bred (Final Appearance).

You will go a long way to find a nicer horse with a better temperament…a real sweetie, willing, kind, forward, bold. Never pinned an ear or raised a leg at anything. Was born broke and polite. Royal Appearance has sired Royal Raconteur who went Advanced. She has a lot of Riverman’s qualities. Riverman is Hilltop’s flagship stallion and is high on all the scores for dressage, jumpers and venters in the States.

When I took my foal to her inspection the inspector said they were true all rounders.

Jimmy Wofford loved my mare at a clinic (although he tried to hide it, but admitted it later).

Don’t write him off without checking further He had a lot of foals on the ground and maybe not all were in the right hands, etc. RA has a good reputation for his temperament.[/QUOTE]
With due respect, I don’t think Riverman’s reputation is because his foals were not in the right hands. Trust me, many of his foals were in the best of hands in some of the best breeding programs in the US. He is at the top because he is consistently athletic. There is no disputing that. There is also no disputing his progeny tend to be reactive and too sensitive for most riders/handlers, even professionals.

Not saying your mare isn’t lovely but by the time she put all four feet on this earth, she had five other contributors besides Riverman in the equation: dam, sire, and the other 3 grand parents.

One of my barn friends bred her horse of a lifetime to Riverman a few years ago. The mare is hot - my type of hot (forward and sensible) but is a hard ride for her because IMHO she needs a more steady ride… but it’s a mare and the mare will do just about anything for her. The foal is nearly three years old and has started some light backing under the guidance of an US UL rider; she is in a program with no slouch and even the trainer has admitted the foal is HARD. I always scratched my head on why they bred to him, but at least the foal(filly now) has athleticism and talent in spades.

OP, I missed that you wanted cool only. Sorry.

[vdowning13]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8938086]
Well…

That mare has a wonderful pedigree but whatever she produces is likely to be HOT, HOT, HOT.

Where is this friend, so I can take this mare from you? :winkgrin:

All joking aside, neither Riverman or Formula One will improve what you want improved:
Riverman, bless him, is not really an amateur ride. I have worked with several of his kids and the temperament depends strongly on the dam’s. If you have a hot mare to begin with, you will get an uncontrollable foal: if you have a* comatose mare, you might get a horse who wants to work with you. Their saving grace is that they are ATHLETIC - if I had to have a Riverman horse, it would be a mare as IMHO they are more compelled to work with you and partner up. In summation, Riverman will not improve temperament. He will improve neck and HQ depending on the mare. He will definitely improve athleticism.

Formula One will put a tough but sensible head on a horse, but you won’t be looking at easy either. That and, IMHO, Formula One will not improve athleticism or stamina of the mare: you need to start with a mare that has both of those traits to get a serious UL horse. So if you are worried about the fitness and stamina aspect of the mare and what she produces, I would not look at Formula One.

Just my personal opinion, being fairly familiar with FO horses as when I was a WS for a certain somebody, he had a string of them: they are just not as athletic for the UL. He has, IIRC, one UL horse and he has ‘covered’ more than his fair share of QUALITY mares… and he has been at stud for a decade. If he was going to light the world on fire, we would have seen it by now.

If I was going to breed that mare (and this is without pictures of the mare, so may be hit or miss), I would consider either:
Future Gravitas (or Grafenstolz)
Persiflage
Mill Law

Now, your mare has a pedigree that I think with intelligent pairing, could produce a very powerful result. I might even consider a full TB with a pedigree like that: Rather Well comes to mind; or a non TB like Tatendrang who would definitely improve the temperament and neck of the mare.

Or you could do RocUSA, which would cement the HTR/Turn To pairing.

I have an old thread that might be of interest to you, it’s about proven event TB stallions:
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?426261-proven-event-TB-stallions-and-their-families[/QUOTE]

She is pretty cool…while she is quite hot, she is also sensible and has a heart of gold. Her son is the same way…scopey as can be and with a nice trainable mind, but not necessarily an amateur’s horse. He is by Huntingfield Proud Tim, and while the stallion is not my personal favorite, she did a bang up job of improving him. Interestingly, my friend bought both her parents ages ago for 250 dollars a piece, and it has proven to be a fantastic line. My biggest problem is that I’m not sure if we can get her to take with frozen (she was so nervous in the vet clinic last time we tried that she wouldn’t take) so I may be stuck with cooled.

I also have a mare that I own that I have been toying with breeding: http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pedigree.cfm?page_state=DISPLAY_REPORT&reference_number=8869449&registry=T&horse_name=Merry%20Sherry&dam_name=Ready%20Teddy&foaling_year=2010&include_sire_line=Y&sire_reference_number=0&dam_reference_number=0&color=&sex=&hypo_foaling_year=&breeder=
Do you have any thoughts on her?

[vdowning13]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;8938345]
Yes, you really need a good vet. Make sure she is clean. But a lot of mares have an inflammation response with the frozen so you have to do the best to manage that. A very experienced vet is critical. I wouldn’t go expensive but might try once with frozen and then switch to fresh cooled if she doesn’t catch.[/QUOTE]

I am going to be using my vet, who has a good bit more experience with frozen than my friend’s vet…Hopefully it will work because I’d really like to breed with frozen.

[JoannaHCR]

I don’t have near the experience of other posters, but both of my mares can be a touch sensitive and I am breeding for eventers.

I bred one to Tatendrang, due early spring 2017, I love the way his neck is tied on, and basically everything I’ve seen about him. I’ve heard great things about him, was very impressed when I met him, and his babies, and his owner and manager are wonderful to work with and I have really high hopes for the baby!

I bred my TB mare to Ehrentanz KD, and have a big bodied 2016 colt. He is an absolute doll. He is well put together, has great movement, scored a 7.9 at his ISR inspection with an 8 on Type and Impression. I have only heard good things about him from people that have seen him at shows, and those that board at the same barn. He’s extremely quiet and intelligent, learns fast and is eager to please. He’s such a good boy that my husband actually let me take him in the house last weekend!

[ElementFarm]

Just want to say I have a Riverman mare who is outstanding!

She was spicy, but never horrid, as a young horse and when she matured, she just got easier and easier. Said mare could show in the 3’6 hunters with no morning school, and also packed around a jr rider at 3’. I still have her, and she’s still the one that’s my favorite to jump. (she’s my profile picture)

I know a lot of Riverman offspring get a bad rap, but mine is wonderful, and there are a lot that are doing well at the UL of their discipline, and with amateurs. So take that for what it’s worth. I have a very nice KWPN mare who I’m seriously considering breeding to Riverman in a year or two, if I can get her approved ISR/Old

[ThirdCharm]

I have a Royal Appearance filly who is lovely and easy, easy, easy. My Formula One mare is very kind and willing but has a wee spook (this is from the dam, though, who is the Worlds Worst Trail Horse as is her older daughter too), the Royal Appearance filly (same dam) fears nothing. Both are super athletic, but mom went Interrmediate and so did the older half sister who was by a regular ol’ TB so I imagine mom has something to do with it. But FO and RA did not hurt. LOL. They are both more uphill and fancier movers than their straight TB half sister.

Same mare is bred to Tatendrang for next year. Squeeeeee excited. But he is BIG. I’m 5’4"…

Jennifer

[elizabeth_Callahan]

So what I would look for is a stallion with a good neckset, decent jumper and good mover. Having had 8 or 9 Riverman offspring, I agree with everyone else. They are super athletic, but not usually an ammie ride. Dreamscapes young Delta Force looks interesting and Jennifer is great to work with. Not thought of as a event type, but Tim Bourke has a very nice 4 yr old by Diarado that looked scopey and won the best ammie type horse at the YEH finals. Wasn’t really big either. I really liked her. Silver Creek had a nice young stallion as well - by Vallado out of a Holsteiner mare. I try to pick good moving stallions that jump across the fences, rather than just up for event horses.

[vdowning13]

[QUOTE=elizabeth Callahan;8940957]
So what I would look for is a stallion with a good neckset, decent jumper and good mover. Having had 8 or 9 Riverman offspring, I agree with everyone else. They are super athletic, but not usually an ammie ride. Dreamscapes young Delta Force looks interesting and Jennifer is great to work with. Not thought of as a event type, but Tim Bourke has a very nice 4 yr old by Diarado that looked scopey and won the best ammie type horse at the YEH finals. Wasn’t really big either. I really liked her. Silver Creek had a nice young stallion as well - by Vallado out of a Holsteiner mare. I try to pick good moving stallions that jump across the fences, rather than just up for event horses.[/QUOTE]

I was actually just looking at Delta Force! I like him quite a bit. I have always had a soft spot for Riverman (R Star was one of my favorites), but I don’t want to end up with something psycho. It sounds like a lot of people on here really like him though. Movement and jump are going to be big for me (she has big floaty movement and a nice jump but I don’t want to take away from that), as well as a good neckset (she has a good vertical “shelf” and a high point of shoulder, I just don’t like the way her son’s neck is set for an UL horse, but I think that’s because of largely the stallion). Have you heard anything about Delta Force/his offspring? He is quite young.

[elizabeth_Callahan]

No, he was just imported last year I believe, so this was his first year at stud, and Im sure his book was limited due to age

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Delta Force is interesting. I like his sire quite a bit and crossed on a TB would be the right blood mix for an Event horse.