Breeding injuries in stallions

[half_pass1]

I am very interested in using Floriscount this year for one of my mares, but I heard that he could not be ridden for several months last year because he was lame. After a bit of looking around I found out that he was injured in a breeding accident - but that was all that was mentioned. Given that these stallions won’t be going anywhere near an actual mare it’s not likely that he got kicked… so what else could it mean?

If anyone could shed some light on what most likely would have happened that would be great!!

[Molly_Malone]

Oh goodness, lots of things can happen on the way to, on, and from the breeding mount. He could have simply slipped on the way in, fallen off the mount, the mount could have collapsed, teaser mare got loose, he got loose… I mean, he’s a horse, so he’s programmed to self destruct and now add testosterone

[TKR]

Floriscount is a lovely stallion! I’m so sorry to hear he was injured in a breeding accident. Actually, a stallion can slip and fall from a phantom or get their hoofs caught or probably any number of things like that can happen and do that would injure a stallion during that collection. They are still excited to some degree, depending on the stallion, and getting on a device that asks them to support themselves with their hindlegs while they are breeding an AV, so it is precarious. I don’t think it’s fair to judge his soundness as far as his being retired at a young age – he could have been injured in such a way that it would prevent him from going on at his level or higher. Having all the information is only fair, especially if you put it out on the internet in a negative way. Alot is asked and expected of these stallions.
PennyG

[siegi_b]

half*pass - you’ve obviously never owned or spent much time around a (popular) breeding stallion… Those guys have quite a heavy collection schedule and at some point they actually do get tired, and with that a myriad of things can happen that have nothing to do with the stallion’s conformation, athletic ability, or whatever.

I hope you’re at least as “tough” with your mares…

[Blume_Farm]

What ever the breeding injury he sustained, he is back in full training hopefully on his way to a GP career. Hence, he has not “broken down”. He too is on the top of my list this year.

[madamlb]

This is a pretty nasty thread. It probably truly was a breeding injury, it’s not particularly fair for you to cast aspersions on the horse’s soundness and reputation based on a simple injury!!!

[alexandra]

I do not know about breeding accident, but what I know he just changed riders to get in the way to the nests higher steps - GP. Nothing a broken down stallion could be doing ! By yourself a clip my horse membership and watch last weeks stallion show at Verden through it and you will see that broken down stallion. Geee what an assumption.
Breeding accidents could be jumps strangely in the phantom and hurt himself, fell off the phantom, fell while eagerly moving towards it …

[half_pass1]

Sorry I didn’t make myself so clear in my first post! I didn’t mean to say that he is broken down - I know that he is not. In fact, I was in Verden last Friday at the Celle Stallion Show and will be seeing him again at the Böckmann Show next week. I think he is a brilliant stallion and from what I have read he will be starting at GP this year with his new rider… so clearly very far from being broken down!

My question was really what constitutes a breeding injury as it is such a vague term. As siegi b. rightly guessed, I have no real experience with breeding stallions so do not know how common or how debilitating these accidents really are. Or if they are just freak accidents or if conformation traits have a role to play.

Sorry I did not mean to be nasty or offensive and thank you to those who have clarified what a breeding injury could constitute.

Floriscount is still in my top 2 sires for one of my mares this year!

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=half*pass;7415715]
My question was really what constitutes a breeding injury as it is such a vague term. As siegi b. rightly guessed, I have no real experience with breeding stallions so do not know how common or how debilitating these accidents really are. Or if they are just freak accidents or if conformation traits have a role to play.[/QUOTE]

I think experienced stallion handlers will tell you they are pretty much always freak accidents, and that conformation traits have basically ZERO to do with it. A very experienced repro vet told us that the greatest contributor to stallion breeding accidents is a very high libido, hard to handle stallion, esp. one that has been badly handled in the past. The risks increase exponentially when an inexperienced handler is involved. But even very experienced “easy” stallions with good handlers are at risk from slipping, falling, getting hung up in the mount. If the horse tweaks his neck or back, or strains a stifle, or bruises a foot, etc., it can definitely put a pause on his training regimen. But there is no way you can categorize these injuries as an indication the stallion is “breaking down” - it’s an apples and oranges comparison.

[half_pass1]

Thank you DonwYonder, that really clears up all my doubts about breeding accidents in general and Floriscount in particular. When my husband and I were talking about this last night he asked me if poor leg conformation or ‘soft’ tendons could have been a contributing factor and I didn’t have an answer… now I do!

[horsechick]

Oh my, can breeding injuries happen! Two summers ago, after a long week horse showing, Amazing had to collect the day he got home. Not sure if he was tired, or just um…“satisfied”, but when he was done, his eyes sort of closed, rolled back, and he literally passed out and slid off the phantom sideways. Once he started to slide, there was no way we could stop it. He didn’t come to until he hit the ground. Talk about a heart attack moment!!! Since then, we watch him carefully, and if he starts to look like he’s about to do it again we have to jiggle the chain and wake him up. We had collected him for two seasons before that incident and he was always very predictable with his routine. Until that day…

[Justa_Bob]

OP - you can edit your first post to remove what were innocent questions that appear to criticize a nice stallion. Also, the thread title can be edited to change paring injury with a particular stallion. This thread has been more to clarify breeding injuries in general? Or something like that. Innocent questions and great answers by posters. Clarifying the first post will delete any disparaging remarks of a nice stallion. Updating the thread title will also be appreciated by the stallion’s admirers and owners.

[HorseKrazy]

You could always ‘YouTube’ search stallion collection with phantom… That could give you a pretty good idea of how different stallions approach the ‘task’ and how they behave ‘after’. Granted, every stallion and handler will differ to an extent. At least you will get a better idea of how slipping and injuries occur. There is a lot of stress that can be involved for the horse.

[Roxyllsk]

[QUOTE=horsechick;7415866]
Oh my, can breeding injuries happen! Two summers ago, after a long week horse showing, Amazing had to collect the day
he got home. Not sure if he was tired, or just um…“satisfied”, but when he was done, his eyes sort of closed, rolled back, and he literally passed out and slid off the phantom sideways. Once he started to slide, there was no way we could stop it. He didn’t come to until he hit the ground. Talk about a heart attack moment!!! Since then, we watch him carefully, and if he starts to look like he’s about to do it again we have to jiggle the chain and wake him up. We had collected him for two seasons before that incident and he was always very predictable with his routine. Until that day…[/QUOTE]

This happened to my friend’s stallion - she had a couple of her own mares and bred him to outside mares too. First time it happened with one of her own mares that she just got - he literally passed out. Freaked her out. Then the following year, same thing happened again when breeding the same mare ! But never to any other mares. We joked that she was his ‘favorite’ LOL

[Crosiadore]

So I am confused ? If Half Pass is in Germany why come on an American board to post this question?

[alexandra]

New video of him:

http://youtu.be/QOB_YOn27Rk

[half_pass1]

[QUOTE=Crosiadore;7417415]
So I am confused ? If Half Pass is in Germany why come on an American board to post this question?[/QUOTE]

Firstly, because I admire the knowledge on here, I’ve been a long time lurker and have learnt that there are people on here who have a lot of experience. Secondly, because German is not my first language and I find reading/writing in English a lot easier when I have a specific question.

I wasn’t aware that this was a board only for Americans?

[TKR]

Half*Pass - welcome to the forum! We have posters from Germany, Australia and many other places around the globe. It’s a wonderful connection for all the horsey folks to share information and questions. Glad to have you go from “lurker” to poster – please continue to join in!
Warmest regards,
Penny Garzarek

[fire_911medic]

Can conformation play a role sure. Just like with anything. Breeding especially to an av which is not anatomically friendly like a mare can out stress on a stud legs stifles joints tendon ligaments etc. Basically think frozen in jumping position. If a heavy collection schedule it is more stress on those joints. As others have stated can be quite the challenge and a lot of things can go wrong. Something g as simple as getting down the wrong way could be an issue. I wouldn’t condemn a stud if injured in a breeding issue. If you really are curious and seriously believe it could be a deal breaker talk to the stud manager. Otherwise I really wouldn’t worry about it. Entirely different than a performance injury.

[Spike]

Thanks Alexandra for sharing. Each time I watch this stallion, it puts a big smile in my face. He seems to make a real good team with this new rider. He seems to enjoy the work so much.
I would love to get a video of the Celle’s presentation from last week. I’ve watched it on clip my horse and it was very impressive.