Need some honest opinions on this matter if at all possible.
If a stallion has only ever bred live, and does his job very well, courts the heck out of his mares and enjoys his time immensely, how hard should it be to teach that stallion to start using a phantom and collecting.
I know they are all different in many, many ways but just looking for any experts in this field to give opinions on this.
Also…for a first timer TB which I know has to breed live to another TB for JC approval, is it better to teach them to breed off a phantom from the get go or live?
Just worried if you start off live, if it would then become harder to teach them to accept the whole AI deal?
Thanks in advance for any help on this topic :yes:
I’ll let Kathy answer with her expert opinion on everything, but can tell you the results with one of our stallions. We purchased one of our stallions when he was 15 years old. His entire life, he had only pasture bred and lived with a band of mares and foals. I don’t think he was ever hand bred either.
The first year he stood at stud with us, we collected him off of a jump mare. The next year, he learned how to ground collect in just a few sessions. He also learned to collect off of a phantom in just one session. So for our guy, it was an easy transition.
It is something they can learn…after all it is a male animal and he is getting to have sex either way. The big thing is to not assume he will be able to manage the change without learning a new trick. Leave plenty of time and don’t wait til the last minute. It is a learning opportunity for him set it up to be a successful opportunity. He may need to go to collecting school so you have a predictable collector. PatO
I think it depends on the stallion. Our last stallion was a TB and did lc first. He would do ok for a real jump mare but just pee on the phantom…nope. he would smell it get excited look around for the mare and then look disgusted and put it away when no mare appeared. He needed a real mare in front of him. He was also a low libido stallion to strart with. The collection guy shrugged and said its not uncommon with stallions that did lc first…he said the up side to training lc stallions is that they know mares have hind feet and they know how to use them…thus they tend to be polite to the jump mare where Ai only stallions faced with a teaser mare tend to try and charge her a lot of the time in phantom school.
Our stallion, being a TB, did live cover first as well. He did learn the phantom in about 20 minutes with the teaser mare right next to it. Now he only needs a mare in the vicinity and he’ll jump the phantom.
How long is a piece of string? Sexual behavior is very much stallion dependent. Some will have absolutely no issues transferring to a breeding mount, others will simply have nothing to do with it, although that is less common. Most stallions learn pretty darn quickly that they get all the gratification without any of the risks (no courting or kicking involved) with the breeding mount.
Also…for a first timer TB which I know has to breed live to another TB for JC approval, is it better to teach them to breed off a phantom from the get go or live?
Just worried if you start off live, if it would then become harder to teach them to accept the whole AI deal?
Thanks in advance for any help on this topic :yes:
Personally, I would start him on the breeding mount. Once you have the behavior established, he’ll KNOW what the mount is about and should easily be able to transfer over to live cover. Remember, that the behaviors that you encourage/discourage now are what he will probably stick with the rest of his life. If you aren’t familiar with training a stallion to the breeding mount, get someone that is (and good at it) to do the training. Good luck!
