Looks like my comment was deleted on the Facebook page, but someone had replied it cost about $18,000 to import each mustang to Europe. If one truly loved the breed, I can think of better uses for 40 grands for the BLM Mustangs already alive…
On top of that, there are so many wonderful native breeds in Europe, some like the Merens living semi feral lives in the mountains (or at least did when I was a kid.)
Like all other types/breeds of horses, there are some wonderful examples and some more pedestrian examples.
Padre, a BLM adopted mustang, is one of the wonderful examples.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsG5BFLjs2M
As for breeding mustangs, PLEASE DON’T! Adopt.
Because they have a potential market and they can acquire horses less expensively by breeding vs importing. It costs 18,000 and a year of waiting for them to adopt a mustang from America. It’s been said over and over again in the breeding forums that it’s cheaper to breed and raise a horse in Europe.
As for why they want a mustang over a native pony from their own country? Why do Americans pick native ponies from other countries over mustangs? Because they want to. How many Fjords are out there doing something a mustang couldn’t? But I’ve never heard anyone scold a Fjord owner for not “buying domestic”. (Not to hate on Fjords, I think they are super cute.)
meanwhile in Ireland
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/councils-slaughter-2100-abandoned-horses-249180.html
I do recall my riding instructor declaring that Mustangs were not athletic in general back in the early '80’s. They are hardy as heck however. No I’m a little dismayed that with tens of thousands of them in holding pens here somebody can’t come up with a better way to get them to a market in Europe that doesn’t involve a dinner plate. Yes I know that they are probably the least likely to end up in the slaughter pipeline, that brand is hard to remove or ignore.
Still.
Once a person breeds selectively, doesn’t that remove “natural selection” by definition? If the horse isn’t bred in the wild, can you still call it a mustang?
Some of the feral horses aren’t really worth it if they were free, but there are many lovely horses out there- the last time I rode by the pens on the west side of the Salt Lake Valley, there were any number of nice horses, obviously remount influence, that would be marketable after training.
I know of at least one working and dude ranch in Idaho that gets every horse they use, whether in the guest string or for working cattle, from a particular herd- and the ranch owner was explaining all of this to me while sitting on a lovely example waiting to go into the arena at a horse show.
If I hadn’t outgrown my need to start young horses, I’d see an opportunity for snapping some up, heck, even picking them up from the prison after being decently started under saddle- some might make foxhunters, some, maybe partner with a ranch to get them some mileage and sell them as ever popular ranch-used geldings, and so on.
One could meet the demand in Europe, and across the US, with what is already available without a breeding program.
Ah, yes, now I understand your comment more clearly and I do agree. There’s something mythical and mystical when it comes to the American cowboy, the wild west, and “taming the wild beast,” I think. Having a chance to own a mustang is owning a piece of Americana and the ideas that go with it.
I do agree with the poster on p. 2 who said something along the lines of if you breed it, it isn’t really a mustang anymore, is it? I mean, it isn’t like they are actually a separate breed, they are basically feral mutts . . . although I LOVE my feral mutt!
I just watched “Wild Horse, Wild Ride” this weekend and whooooo boy there was one GORGEOUS mustang in there who fetched the highest price at the Mustang Makeover in TX. Lovely, lovely horse.
There are a lot of breeders out there who shouldn’t be breeding, and a lot of mustangs who need homes. I’m very happy with my pound puppy horse rescue, as are a lot of other people I know. I was at a cow clinic earlier this spring and the clinician commented along the lines of mustangs not being athletic but she was really surprised by the work Mac did and how much cow he had in him and how he was able to work. Now, mind you, we’re not going to the show pen for cutting or anything like that. But for what we do, he’s able to get the job done just fine.
With all the unwanted and abandoned horses out there, I just don’t think it is good or responsible to be breeding grade horses of unknown parentage - either in the US or abroad.
While I go along with the reason for breeding them in Europe being the romanticized version of the “Old West” that some Europeans (may) have, let’s not forget that some mustangs (i.e., Kigers) are bred here in the USA. There’s a Kiger at the barn where I board,and he is a substantial horse, about 15.3, grulla, and a very attractive individual. While he’s basically a pleasure horse, he appears quite athletic and I can see him being competitive in dressage, among other things.
Of course, it would seem that Europeans who are really into western riding (as opposed to the “Romance of the Old West”) are buying/importing/breeding good 'ol AQHA and APHA horses and have become quite competitive in reining, for example.
My mustang was a love. Smartest, kindest horse I’ve ever met in 25+ years in the horse world. A conformational nightmare, yes, but I purchased her because she needed a serious upgrade–which she got.
[QUOTE=Sandy M;7654566]
Of course, it would seem that Europeans who are really into western riding (as opposed to the “Romance of the Old West”) are buying/importing/breeding good 'ol AQHA and APHA horses and have become quite competitive in reining, for example.[/QUOTE]
But that is born from the romance of the ‘West’ as well.
And of course, as in every discipline, the driven people will rise to the top (and spend the money)
20-30 years ago, you had warmbloods. The ‘hobby’ riders would maybe sport a Fjord or a Hafflinger. Hurray for options.
(but I wonder where they get their numbers for having to pay 18k to import a Mustang…you can get broken ones from prison programs for 800 bucks, importation should not run more than 6 or 8k on a good day…the Vanner effect?)
DayDreamBeliever would probably be able to shed some light on this, as I understand she is involved with the Spanish Mustangs who are also being bred in Europe…
[IMG]http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t647/bilbothemustang/032_zps3751580c.jpg)
[IMG]http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t647/bilbothemustang/970169_10201134605556799_1441171419_n_zpsc617b520.jpg)
Now onto the breeding discussion. I don’t not think Mustangs should be allowed to die out. There are some of the only genetics in the world in some of those horses. They deserve to be protected as the native species that they are. They fully evolved here before going to extinct and then making there return. Therefore they are a native species.
I say to each there own. I would take my Mustangs over something else any day.
If Europe wants them because they are ‘american’ by all means… TAKE THEM!
Some of them are good horses yes, and we have a nice example of a horse like Padre who is a very nice show horse, however that’s only one horse. But the overall breed is far from being a good show quality horse and until we can get decent moving horses with good work ethics and conformation, they won’t be marketable.
A year of boarding, preferably with someone handling them on a regular basis so they don’t regress, can easily cover the other 10k. They cannot leave the country until they are titled. The prison program time does not count towards that year, it starts when they are purchased.
[QUOTE=MustangSavvy;7654719]
Now onto the breeding discussion. I don’t not think Mustangs should be allowed to die out. There are some of the only genetics in the world in some of those horses. They deserve to be protected as the native species that they are. They fully evolved here before going to extinct and then making there return. Therefore they are a native species.
I say to each there own. I would take my Mustangs over something else any day.[/QUOTE]
Considering the history of Mustangs, they are hardly native, nor special.
I even question DDB claims on how special her Spanish Mustangs are, but as far as quality, she had been producing quality, which is a feat, regardless of bloodlines.
I think you read the wrong articles as to what evolved here and what is populating the plains.
Whatever you wish to be your trusted steed, the choice is yours.
[QUOTE=Alagirl;7654980]
Considering the history of Mustangs, they are hardly native, nor special.
I even question DDB claims on how special her Spanish Mustangs are, but as far as quality, she had been producing quality, which is a feet, regardless of bloodlines.
I think you read the wrong articles as to what evolved here and what is populating the plains.
Whatever you wish to be your trusted steed, the choice is yours.[/QUOTE]
Clearly, you haven’t been reading the correct sources. Mustangs are a native species and those bloodlines are very special not all but some.
“Modern horses evolved on this continent 1.6 million years ago, only to later disappear,” Kirkpatrick told me. “The two key elements for classifying an animal as a native species are where it originated and whether it coevolved with its habitat. The horse can lay claim to doing both in North America.”
^Therefore they are a native species.
[URL=“http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/02/wild-horses/fuller-text/1”]
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/02/wild-horses/fuller-text/1
Here is some excellent reading if you would like to educate yourself. Probably not though.
-Wild Horses of the West: History and Politics of America’s Mustangs
By J. Edward De Steiguer
-Mustang: The Saga of the Wild Horse in the American West Paperback – June 1, 2009
by Deanne Stillman
Mustang Savvy, what evolved on this continent was extirpated. What is here now was reintroduced from another continent. So no, not native.
As a ‘fan’ of mustangs who also recognizes that they need to be managed, I am frequently disappointed by the poor scientific quality of the references that some supporters’ arguments are based on. If all of the mustang advocates got on the same page, based on sound science, I think some real progress could be made.
High level sport horse users in dressage, eventing, jumping and such, go to Europe to get their horses. Someone ought to be developing this European niche market so they’ll come to the US to buy mustangs as a preference to buying mustangs bred in Europe.
This isn’t about the worth of BLM Mustangs in and of themselves. Some are crap, some are lovely animals. This is about the fact that there are thousands and thousands in holding pens and private parties breeding them is outrageous.
Horse people are not good at crunching numbers, but even if the $18,000 and 1 year wait quoted is correct a little math will go a long ways to disprove that argument.
Say the “exported” mustangs are bred now.
11 months later, here pops out a little sorrel filly.
Dang I wanted a black colt.
Wait another year.
Say you get your colt.
3 years later you can start riding.
So you’ve now waited 5 years for your “mustang” which is neither branded nor has ever roamed free.
With all the programs available these days supporting rehoming BLM Mustangs - TIP, Mustang Million, Mustang Makeover, etc, etc, surely a European buyer would be able to pick and choose a horse already on the ground, already started, with photos and videos already available.
Breeding them as “domestic” removes that magical “first touch of the wild horse” some might fantasize about, so one might as well get one that has been handled. (And to me, it wouldn’t be fair to put a true “wild one” through the overseas shipping process.)
Agreed. And I don’t know about worrying about shipping, only because I’m aware of one area where BLM has to use boats to get burros out, no other access. They modify tour boats and have special gangplanks, and amazingly to me anyway, the never-handled burros just walk onto the boat, stack themselves up the way they want to be, and don’t move a muscle for the ride. And then just walk back off the gangplank. Of course there’s the fact that long eared equids tend to be smarter and more sensible than short-eared equids, but still! So I guess I’m saying no, you don’t just put one straight off the desert on a plane, but the expense of correctly handling and training a feral horse to have it safe to ship would not be outrageous, I think. Especially if you can ship groups at a time, safety and comfort in numbers.
There are some very nice ones out there, and in general they tend to be smart and healthy and hardy with strong legs and good feet, which is something we don’t breed for enough.
I have no problem with someone breeding exemplary individuals from any breed. If they are simply importing any ol’ thing that ends up in the holding pens that’s another issue entirely.
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