This is in response to the thread “Breed Bias”, where breeding trends were mentioned a couple times… Basically, when a conformational flaw becomes a trend or style, and breeders start breeding to get that style. For example, when certain QHs have tiny legs and heads, along with hulk-like bodies…IMO, they’re not pretty, nor are they able to perform well!
What do you all think about this issue?
It seems like many disciplines, including but certainly not limited to halter, turn into caricatures of themselves over time. If a little bit of something is good, more MUST be better, right? If it pins, push the envelope further and further and further…
IMO, that’s how we end up with Quarter Horses that look like beef cattle on steroids. It’s why we have Arabians that look like seahorses from outer space with snakes for necks. It’s why Western Pleasure horses have noses dragging on the ground and gaits that look like a broken robot. It’s behind gaited horses with pads, chains, and sores. And it’s why you have rollkur in dressage. And why show hunters get a dozen needles to make them quiet.
I’m not saying it applies to all or even a majority of horses in each of these disciplines… but you know it happens. Things evolve over time and just get more and more extreme.
IMHO all breeding should be done to improve health, conformation, purpose/athleticism and brains.
And the looks will develop from there…hence we become accustomed to and attracted to that specific look of the healthiest, hardiest specimen for that particular size/purpose/sport.
Breeding for specific looks due to looks alone (head size, hoof size, color, hair length/feathers, etc) is the same thing as designer bred dogs. Stupid and detrimental to the animals.
I don’t get things like Halter Horses. I completely get halter classes…show off those gorgeous, purpose bred animals and compete on how well they conform to that breed’s standard! But breeding for that ONE class: to stand still and do nothing only? Dumb. That animal is 1000+ lbs and can live 30+ years. It needs to have a job AFTER it stands and looks pretty for a short time in it’s youth.
But watch any and every breed or discipline. Over time all of them morph into the ridiculous. Because there will always be one animal that so outshines every other animal in it’s niche that when judges pin it all the time, then breeders start exaggerating the heck out of that one single animal’s Perfection Freak build/movement/looks. TWHs are awesome. Big Lick is stupid as hell. QHs are awesome! Halter QHs look like damned beef cattle. Arabs are awesome, but look what some folks have done to the gorgeous dishy Arab heads…they look like seahorses on crack.
But we do it to everything. We have breeds of dogs that have been so deformed for Extreme Looks that they are actually incapable of giving natural birth to their offspring now. Some pass out if they sneeze. WTH?Persian cats: NORMAL ones now have to be called Doll Face Persians. The extreme brachycephalic freaks they’ve selection bred for a while now are considered the “normal” ones and those are the ones at shows! And yet they can’t keep their eyes clean, they run due to their faces being shoved into their skulls.
And this country is the worst offender I think. We’re usually “the bigger/more/whatever the better” folks. We made Shetlands look like tiny ASBs. Who does that? We took Andies and Lusies…ages-old traditional baroque animals with scads of uber-selective breeding and think they’d be even better if only they were TALL! They’re not supposed to be 17hh! We took Arabians, who for countless centuries were so protected and selectively bred for excellence where they originated that breeders protected their stock and breeding books with their actual lives and that breed was the refiner of almost every breed today and made them basket cases bred for chrome, color, bug-eyed crushed skull heads, etc.
Of course not ALL screw up breeds in this country, but it’s sorry that these become popular trends that end up rewarded in show rings and sales. :no:
furlong47…amen!
And don’t forget the Morgans who mostly look just like Saddlebreds…which I just don’t understand. I mean if you want something that looks and moves exactly like a Saddlebred, why don’t you just buy a Saddlebred?
I hadn’t paid attention to halter-bred Quarter Horses for several years, but this thread inspired me to do a little research into what’s winning.
I about gagged when I came across this yearling filly: http://www.clarkrassi.com/updates%202013/aug20/Yes%20IM%20A%20Diva%20898%20copy.jpg
And this isn’t from some backyard breeder either. How is that even a functional horse?
Yeah, things are bad when your animals look photoshopped IRL. :no:
And I also noticed the Morgan ASBs. Both are great animals…stop screwing around with them.
Yeah, that filly looks like four different horses put together. Eesh.
[QUOTE=MistyBlue;7182093]
IMHO all breeding should be done to improve health, conformation, purpose/athleticism and brains.
And the looks will develop from there…hence we become accustomed to and attracted to that specific look of the healthiest, hardiest specimen for that particular size/purpose/sport.
Breeding for specific looks due to looks alone (head size, hoof size, color, hair length/feathers, etc) is the same thing as designer bred dogs. Stupid and detrimental to the animals.
I don’t get things like Halter Horses. I completely get halter classes…show off those gorgeous, purpose bred animals and compete on how well they conform to that breed’s standard! But breeding for that ONE class: to stand still and do nothing only? Dumb. That animal is 1000+ lbs and can live 30+ years. It needs to have a job AFTER it stands and looks pretty for a short time in it’s youth.
But watch any and every breed or discipline. Over time all of them morph into the ridiculous. Because there will always be one animal that so outshines every other animal in it’s niche that when judges pin it all the time, then breeders start exaggerating the heck out of that one single animal’s Perfection Freak build/movement/looks. TWHs are awesome. Big Lick is stupid as hell. QHs are awesome! Halter QHs look like damned beef cattle. Arabs are awesome, but look what some folks have done to the gorgeous dishy Arab heads…they look like seahorses on crack.
But we do it to everything. We have breeds of dogs that have been so deformed for Extreme Looks that they are actually incapable of giving natural birth to their offspring now. Some pass out if they sneeze. WTH?Persian cats: NORMAL ones now have to be called Doll Face Persians. The extreme brachycephalic freaks they’ve selection bred for a while now are considered the “normal” ones and those are the ones at shows! And yet they can’t keep their eyes clean, they run due to their faces being shoved into their skulls.
And this country is the worst offender I think. We’re usually “the bigger/more/whatever the better” folks. We made Shetlands look like tiny ASBs. Who does that? We took Andies and Lusies…ages-old traditional baroque animals with scads of uber-selective breeding and think they’d be even better if only they were TALL! They’re not supposed to be 17hh! We took Arabians, who for countless centuries were so protected and selectively bred for excellence where they originated that breeders protected their stock and breeding books with their actual lives and that breed was the refiner of almost every breed today and made them basket cases bred for chrome, color, bug-eyed crushed skull heads, etc.
Of course not ALL screw up breeds in this country, but it’s sorry that these become popular trends that end up rewarded in show rings and sales. :no:[/QUOTE]
Thankyou thankyou thankyou. Couldn’t have said it better myself. This is exactly what I was crabbing about.
[QUOTE=Tha Ridge;7182133]
I hadn’t paid attention to halter-bred Quarter Horses for several years, but this thread inspired me to do a little research into what’s winning.
I about gagged when I came across this yearling filly: http://www.clarkrassi.com/updates%202013/aug20/Yes%20IM%20A%20Diva%20898%20copy.jpg
And this isn’t from some backyard breeder either. How is that even a functional horse?[/QUOTE]
How is that any more objectionable that some gaited horses with absurd ways of going?
There are all kinds of horses and each breeder has their own ideas.
There are many horses I don’t like, but understand that it takes all kinds to make this world work and that the pendulum tends to swing back and forth on what people like and why and what finally is seen as absurd by most and few stay with that.
People have been breeding TBs for speed only and let conformation faults flourish so today you have to look what didn’t run over to pick some you can use for other without them having problems.
That is something half a century ago was not so much so, we could take most TBs and re-train them for ranch or hunting horses and they did fine.
Some cutting horse lines were based on very little, light horses that just were too small for many riders or tasks, not good when you want to use them for other than cutting.
Specialization can bring that, then breeders realize they are painting themselves in a corner and start to look for ways to change what is not working so well.
Today’s cutting horses are getting more substance and size to them.
You don’t see as many, as one trainer decried, “chicken-boned runty colts”, being trained and that is sure better for all in the long run.
As for AQHA halter horses, there are other halter classes today than the ones where the old time, blubbery type wins.
As long as there is some market for those, someone will breed them, even if most other horsemen don’t like them.
The horse world, as all in this world, is always changing, some times for the better, some times not.:no:
