Hi all. I need some collective wisdom here. I have a 7 year old mare who is schooling 4th/PSG. She is one of two horses I own, with the other one being an 18 year old sound I1 horse. I have had back problems due to a car accident, and am struggling to ride 2 for the past year and a half. I have always wanted to breed my mare, but the timing was never right. I thought if I bred her this year, it would help me focus on my older guy who is still very sound and happy to do the work for now. My trainer isn’t a fan of breeding riding mares if you have plans for FEI work in their future, as she feels giving birth changes their pelvis in a way that can make it difficult for them to sit in the collection. Does anyone have experience with this one way or another? My other question is how does having that much time off effect a mare’s desire to work? This particular mare was not the most eager of workers as a youngster, but in the last year has really become a great partner who enjoys her work. As far as my back goes, my Dr. thinks I will have on and off pain for a few years, but it should diminish eventually.
I would say that most of the loss in strength is due to time out of training, vs simply the act of delivering a foal. Most mares are out of work from before breeding, to at least 6 months after delivery = 18+ months without a structured fitness / strength program. THAT has the most impact. No doubt, there are some transient hormonal changes that impact the mare’s pelvis but these are generally temporary.
If you are committed and able to keep a mare fit, most can train easily through 2nd trimester and then do light hacking. A fit mare will have an easier time delivering a foal and a faster recovery. If you feed well, and maintain a fitness program for the mare = the impact is greatly reduced. Depending on the mare’s temperament and your farm set-up, you can bring a mare back into work with a young foal if you have a stall close to your riding arena where they can still see each other. I had a mare that returned to riding, and that I hacked out on regularly before and after the foal. She called occasionally, but seemed to enjoy staying with her routine and a bit of baby-free time. I left the foal with an older babysitter in a safe area, and it all worked fine. I have other mares that would not have been able to handle this, and you won’t know what kind of reaction they will have until after they foal. You can probably still get a mare back into work, but more protective ones will need to keep their baby in sight and not have any other horses around that make them feel threatened / worry about their foal. If your breeding plan would be the more traditional mare on mat-leave for ~18 months, then yes = your trainer is right. It will take time to get her back to the level of strength and fitness you have now, and her work ethic could take a downturn. She may resent getting back into shape, back on a schedule, back into training after time out to be her own boss.
I would ask though what is your primary driver for wanting to breed the mare? Is it because you absolutely want a foal from this particular mare, to raise as your own? If not, it’s certainly less risky and less expensive to buy your next youngster. I absolutely love the bond you develop with a youngster you breed and raise, but not all will end up being a “fit” for you when they are mature.
Anytime you breed a mare, you are putting her at risk as well. Breeding is often heartbreaking, and very, very expensive. Lots of money can go down the drain, very very fast and you can end up with no foal, or worse - no mare either. Are you ready for 24-7 foal watch, or have a trusted facility for foaling-out? My last mare/foal wrecked havoc on my work and vacation schedule, with an unexpected injury, 4 mos of rehab, followed by placentitis that had me worrying while I had to travel to for my job, and we had to skip a vacation we had planned. Taking a year off… I know I am a fool, and will breed again this year but you have to really love it to do it because it’s not just expensive, a great way to lose a lot of money fast, overall foolish insanity. Granted, very rewarding when it goes well but make sure you have support you need from SO, barn, work, etc to make a go of it.
Do you have a suitable facility to raise a youngster? Lots of turnout, other mares and foals to socialize with? What are registry options for the foal? Has your mare been approved for breeding? That in itself takes some forward planning, timing is generally once/yr and the mare’s approvals will also influence your stallion choice to some extent. There is also cost to pursue this, it probably ads some value to the mare (Plan B, should she become unsound) but also takes time and money. The return on this investment is also less, if you are thinking only one foal then back-to-work. There is a lot to think about…
If keeping her as a competitive partner is your primary goal, you might consider finding a good part-boarder to help you keep your mare in shape and continue her schooling as you focus on your older horse. Does your trainer have any students who might be a fit for her? You might consider a part-lease arrangement, same barn, same trainer and you could still ride occasionally to keep your connection with her? She could continue to develop, and you won’t lose time out of her training.
Love to hear your thoughts, and maybe post the mare’s pedigree and photos?
I know you have acknowledged this and I hate to sound like an alarmist Debbie Downer, but do keep in mind when you breed that there is no guarantee that you are getting a live mare back at the end and that risk is real. When I worked on a breeding farm that foaled out 30-50 mares a year, we lost 1-2 mares pretty much every season due to pregnancy or foaling complications, and a couple that developed long-term problems from laminitis. Something to keep in mind, especially with a horse that already has so much training invested in them.
I think your trainer is the victim of an old wife’s tale. In Europe, it used to be customary of young mares having one-two foals before going into heavy-duty work. The mares not only perform better (they are more focused, their heat cycles are more consistent and less prominent, they become less touchy), but the mare owner won’t end up with an older maiden mare as well as will have an idea about what stallion to breed her to after the mare’s competition career is over. I am certain that your mare would have been a lot easier as a youngster had she had a foal early on.
It is also a scientifically proven fact that WOMEN athletes perform better after having a child. I think it is reasonable to extrapolate that to mares as well.
In my experience, the mare can come back to work right after weaning and as soon as the mare is physically fit (3-4 months) they are all at or at higher levels than before.
Thank you for the great responses so far. My mare is by Don Frederico out of a Wesley/Dakar mare. I can’t add any pics, but she is smaller-15.3 or 16 hands. She was inspected as a 3 year old with the AHS and is in the Main Mare book. They said she didn’t make Elite mainly because of her size. She could have a longer front leg and be a tad more uphill. Her size is perfect for me as I’m 5"3. She is a 7 mover. I love riding her! She gives me a super feeling, and I would be pleased with one just like her. I would love to have a foal from her, and it would be a keeper for myself. I would keep her in work as long as she would allow it, and I have a setup that the turnout borders the arena, so the baby could be close if I wanted to start riding the mare before weaning. I would not want to breed the mare and sacrifice her ability to be my FEI riding horse as she is well on her way. She was quite challenging as a youngster and had really become easy for me now. However, my trainer and I both think that she is not a good candidate to be leased. I am really torn, because I love riding her so much, but would love a foal from her someday. It seems like a good time for me as I could focus on my older gelding.
Wow, szipi that is interesting. I am kicking myself that I didn’t breed her at 3 or 4.
Funny you should mention this, Andras. I find my rides are far less focused And productive after having a child. Mostly because there’s a toddler running around. :winkgrin:
My riding mares were both started us and bred as 3 or 4 yo and returned to work after foaling. Some mares were able to return to work in as little as 1 month with the foal at side in the ring… Others totally can’t cope with that .they are all different. I usually rode them until about 7 mos along. I have lost one mare to post foaling colic in 15 years. It does happen , but not all that often .
[QUOTE=szipi;7924312]
It is also a scientifically proven fact that WOMEN athletes perform better after having a child. I think it is reasonable to extrapolate that to mares as well.
In my experience, the mare can come back to work right after weaning and as soon as the mare is physically fit (3-4 months) they are all at or at higher levels than before.[/QUOTE]
I find this very interesting. Is there a scientific study you can cite? I’d love to read it.
[QUOTE=LaurieB;7924922]
I find this very interesting. Is there a scientific study you can cite? I’d love to read it.[/QUOTE]
Here is one such article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/10563263/Jessica-Ennis-Hills-pregnancy-may-lead-to-enhanced-performance-in-the-run-up-to-Rio-2016.html Decades ago I raced bicycles, and it was thought then that endurance female athletes benefited from pregnancy. I didn’t race after having a child, but others who did didn’t dispute this research.
[QUOTE=clint;7925635]
Here is one such article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/10563263/Jessica-Ennis-Hills-pregnancy-may-lead-to-enhanced-performance-in-the-run-up-to-Rio-2016.html Decades ago I raced bicycles, and it was thought then that endurance female athletes benefited from pregnancy. I didn’t race after having a child, but others who did didn’t dispute this research.[/QUOTE]
Thank you, Clint!
Szipi is right. I was at a breeder’s conference at the World Cup and this was one think that came up. They all do it. The only thing that was an issue was breeding a two year old. One breeder I talked to felt that it was too young and stretched the ligaments in their pelvis too much before work and could cause problems.
I have also done it personally a few times. MY GP mare I bred at 4, when I started riding her, and kept riding her until she wanted to stop, then started up a month or so after foaling. Obviously she made it to GP.
I also bought a badly greenbroke mare at 8 that had three foals before being broke. I started working her and bred her within six months, working her through about eight/nine months, and again starting her a month or so after the foal was born. Two years later I did the same. Meanwhile I kept riding and showing her. She competed 3rd level at eight months pregnant, and showed up to PSG. She was totally fine. She was MUCH more trainable when pregnant, so I was able to get a lot more done. And she went from a super weak, untrained horse to very strong and trained while having two babies.
I wouldn’t risk a good performance mare. Most are fine…but there are risks.
I’d be more inclined to do ET if you really wanted a foal.
But can you find out if the breeder still has her dam…or any relatives. Instead of risking your mare…why not see if you can find a sibling or other close relative.
4wdNstraight, you have a PM.
I would do ET in this situation.
[QUOTE=4wdNstraight;7924372]
Thank you for the great responses so far. My mare is by Don Frederico out of a Wesley/Dakar mare. I can’t add any pics, but she is smaller-15.3 or 16 hands. She was inspected as a 3 year old with the AHS and is in the Main Mare book. They said she didn’t make Elite mainly because of her size. She could have a longer front leg and be a tad more uphill. Her size is perfect for me as I’m 5"3. She is a 7 mover. I love riding her! She gives me a super feeling, and I would be pleased with one just like her. I would love to have a foal from her, and it would be a keeper for myself. I would keep her in work as long as she would allow it, and I have a setup that the turnout borders the arena, so the baby could be close if I wanted to start riding the mare before weaning. I would not want to breed the mare and sacrifice her ability to be my FEI riding horse as she is well on her way. She was quite challenging as a youngster and had really become easy for me now. However, my trainer and I both think that she is not a good candidate to be leased. I am really torn, because I love riding her so much, but would love a foal from her someday. It seems like a good time for me as I could focus on my older gelding.[/QUOTE]
4wdNstraight,
I’m in a very similar situation. I have a fantastic FEI prospect, 6-year-old mare, who is schooling third level that I have decided to breed this coming year because I just had a child of my own (so my time is very limited right now). While she is a great riding horse, my trainer and I agree it is not in her best interest for me to find a leaser to rider her. I also have a small breeding operation, so I am going to breed her this coming year. I plan on riding her lightly a couple times a week to keep her in shape until I feel she is no longer happy / comfy going - hopefully until she is at least 6-8 months in. I will also get her going again as soon as she’s ready after she foals out, even if it’s just taking walking around my property. I think she’ll have no issues coming back to work mentally, it’ll just be getting her back in shape. 
I like to remind myself that there are many GP mares out there that had a foal(s) prior to becoming a riding horse or moving up the levels. My trainer’s current GP mare had a couple foals herself before moving up the levels. Also, look at Caroline Roffman’s Her Highness O - an international GP mare… who started off as a broodmare!
